Q W is always better imo but I guess I understand why some people might go flame guard (because they are horrible at hitting the chain W combo)
(bottle if mid) phase drums bfury 2x then crit/deso
sampson nearly every pro except for arteezy and singsing likes flame guard build, well I guess they suck
Flame Guard against melee heroes in lane is way better than Q-W max build. It does so much more damage and also safer because of the shield. But against ranged heroes it's rarely useful.
max flame guard is the only way to go. 1 point in q and then max w. anything else is silly.
Source:
http://dotabuff.com/matches/596457531 (1 death came from friends killing me in fountain)
in pubs where you cant trust your teammates and where you'll almost always be going for solo kills you should always go QE build, with a point in W at lvl 3 to use the combo
phase or arcane doesnt make much difference imo just W/e
drums if ure not balling, if ure balling go aquila > phase > deso , then either start stacking battlefuries/daedalus or go for gay items like bkb linkens etc
sampson knows jackshit about ember look at his stats and then look at mine , ex dee
no it doesn't
it shows the build that deals the most overall damage with sleight considering close enemies
then you do that, get hex'd and die in 1 second
usually deso > bf afaik
i prefer flameguard because
A) It gives you a personal pipe
B) The damage is ridiculous
C) I can easily land level 1 fist+bolas
D) It doesn't scale like fist does
unless each teams is 440 units away from each other in team fights AND there are 0 creeps(which never happens) Bfury is always better
q/w is for the low armor/squishy type of heroes. flameguard accelerates your farm early which means arcane boots required usually.
even TC stopped buying mana boots in his competitive matches (dont watch his pub games)
no... bfury forces them to fight apart and is great vs uphill or defending uphill, as creeps spawn and forces them to clump together or spread apart and get picked off
bfury ignores armor bonus anyways
i wouldnt see why the hell anyone would max Q as it rarely does anything for your W
the 1 level is generally enough for me.
You're spending two more points in it to hit 1 more target that you're probably not going to snatch due to the randomization of hitting units with fist.
I'd rather spend 2-3 points in stats.
i'm not at the* highest MMR but i play a decent ember
dat 66.2k hero dmg (:
http://www.dotacinema.com/vods/7881#game2
both teams played ember spirit and BOTH use chains into sleight and phase into drums(TC stopped his drums at bracer to get his bfury faster). The first match RTZ got a maelstrom but that was basically just to troll a won game
not really caring what the pros do vs pros
just what works best/what's optimal for the situation
bfly is stupid on ember because he doesnt rely on AS
same with drums, the stats given to this hero is redundant considering his role
he's better off flash farming and staying in good positioning + making use out of teammates (because this is what happens in trench tier)
inb4 dunning kruger
a build that was recommended to me that i agree with is bottle/boots/bfury/BoT/bfury/etc...
essentially entire map presence given you dont put yourself in front like a moron
whereas 3 bfly, daedalus, BoT and insert --> glass cannon items that are viable on ember
i.e. abyssal (bkb disable AND bash works through fist, praise RNG god. still viable), divine, or id even prefer skadi
I was not being serious about the butterfly I was merely making a joke at the fact that you want people to recommend what to build if the opponent is retarded
Divine is such a legit pickup on him, as MADS says just don't position like a moron in pubs and you can get away with it.
The reason he's considered a somewhat high skill hero is purely because he's a glass cannon. But play to his strengths, if you build him tanky then you're not building him to do his job (stay safe and kill, only going into the fight after the main initiations), by which point you've probably already dropped in sleight once and the CD is ready for the second time.
flameguard is always better due to high damage and shield.
phase since you can get mana any time by using a remnant and tping home, or getting runes if mid (with a bottle ofc)
battlefury sucks on xin unless you face something like meepo, pl, naga etc. other than that get drum+deso
exactly
this moron last game went ember and maxed Q vs DP/clock/AA/SK/alch
4 of those heroes do at least a decent chunk of mana dmg
"his lane was going poorly so he HAD to max Q and had no other choice" - needless to say that he didn't explain why
battlefury propels your farm and once two are obtained you get >100% cleave = more dmg, not to mention that your spell does BONUS dmg
it also secures your hp/mana regen somewhat decently and scales into late game.
if you're going to pick a glass cannon they play him/her like a glass cannon when you CAN.
don't go phase/drums if the game is going in your favour, why the hell would you sacrifice the lead?
if i can pick up a bfury by 10-14min, i can usually get the next by 18-20 along with boots/tps, and then by 22-24 is crit
i really don't think you can do that with phase/drums and ur sacrificing a ton of damage output
even if two heroes stand together within a 440 radius they take TWO hits which = 120 (assuming lvl 4), 120, + the cleaved unit gets hit for more.
do u really think each hero is going to stick apart exactly >440 radius from each other to avoid ember? situations are going to force them to be side by side (within 440) eventually
bolas is so ez to hit lol. it just depends on the situation. mid favors QW better as you can setup an initiation
you CAN skip drums but rarely is it a good option
drums gives
+dmg
+mana
+health
that you need to be effective in the mid game fights. Ember is not a Void type carry where he afk farms til hes unbeatable which is why you see 95% of pros going drums
ember only needs max 20 min of farm to be an annoyance whereas void is more like 35+
ember also has 3 x more mobility than void and arguably more survivability early game
drums gives squat dmg, squat mana and squat health in terms of how i think this hero (and quite a few others) should be played
most of my deaths with ember are due to me forgetting to put a safety remnant behind or an unforeseen gank i.e. smoke
you have two spells that make you invulnerable, it really doesn't have synergy with drums
i dont care again, about what the pros do/can do
i just care about what works, and if this works and is optimal at this bracket, then it is the better one to use in this bracket.
i see too many embers go Q W and leave flame guard at like 1, going bottle/phase/deso.... what a destruction of a beautiful hero :/
especially when he's the main core, ill see ember's spam 2-3 remnants for a kill and then die, due to lack of charges to escape
keep in mind, any reduction on his ms affects his remnant placement speed, which is why ppl still get caught out so much (still me)
im even the type of person to stack for heroes like ember just because i love their ability to flash farm... but most of them dont make good use of it, and it's not a lie when i say, "most embers that've gone battlefury over drums have won, in my experience".
it's not a solid verification of what i'm saying, but even if u look at the hero item winrate bfury > drums
You realize drums gives around the stats of an ultimate orb....for less money...
As well as speed and charge.
yup clearly EVERY single pro player is clueless and your pub build is the best way to build ember.
Think of it like a team benefit. You increase your mobility and survival as well as the same for your team. I would rather see ANY CARRY from PA to Ember that gets battlefury ingame, go Phase + drum > rather than brown boots + fury. You gain early game sustain, as well as maneuvering chase and other good stats and mechanics.
i didnt say they were clueless
you're twisting words around sampy gampy
and why are you buying something alike to an ultimate orb for ember? he has the mobility and capacity to flash farm? the ms/as boost is a waste, you might as well just stick with a bracer if you're lacking in stats
PA would, unlike ember, benefit more from drums seeing as how she can utilize the as/ms boost + she can initiate on solos, or when bkb is bought
whereas ember = fist/chains ; no ms/as required, no stats required to withstand any damage.
the charges are practically only used for team fights and as i said, there are more optimal items for ember.
yeah.. most of the "pros" know how to play "every" single hero to it's full potential.
you're getting an item that's abysmal in the long run, instead of getting an item that scales insanely into mid-late game with a tad bit better positioning.
Well pro's may not have the ability to play hero's to their full potential, however I trust professionals more than rands on DB forums. His mana pool is shitty as well. Drums helps him with that. Low hp, Low mana, average move speed. Three things he needs help with that are solved.
No I am talking about EVERY SINGLE pro who plays ember atm goes phase drums into X (TC, Sing2x, RTZ, resolution etc.)
with how wrong your post is I am just going to use point form on all your mistakes
Ember does not 'flash farm' (PL, naga, AM, those are flash farmers)
Every hero benefits from movement speed
'No stats required to withstand any dmg' . I am sorry I dont play with bots, you will take dmg against humans
You cant just afk farm late game items and hope nobody comes near you during the mid game. Which is why I will say it once more for u since u missed it EVERY SINGLE PRO ES PLAYER BUYS DRUMS.
we should do a 50+ game span of ember and compare builds, never switching
i argue that his mana hp pool is abysmal in terms of how his hero is capable of being invulnerable with not 1 but 2 spells.
you're not accepting the fact that if he gets caught i.e. stunned/silenced/slowed, you are most likely N0T going to A. right-click them afterwards, or B. survive by running away with ur "massive" speed boost.
i just trust in stats, what i see and experience and what i can produce myself - as well as others.
again, more often than not, embers i see that prioritize battlefury over drums/bottle (especially if theyre not midlane) win more often than those who do the opposite
i always thank my lucky stars when i see embers delay bfury and cause a lack of damage output, an ember who doesn't do any damage is a dead ember. those pretty stats aren't going to help when you're the main target and they're most likely going to majority of their important spells on you
ember "does" flash farm, hence why he's one of the heroes that yields a consistent high xpm/gpm for me
you can't tell me that he doesn't, when it's physically possible to do so, and has been done by more than just me.
ill do a test later on how efficient he can "flash farm" in practice mode or something, with 1 bfury and multiple (more the better) stacks, your farm capacity multiplies insanely
you go ahead with ur phase/drums/bottle at 18 min and ill go with my bfury bfury boots
sure hero benefits from ms, i'm saying the ms provided for this type of hero is near NULL
please don't extrapolate one part of the sentence that was used in support of the prior .__.
"no stats required to withstand any dmg when using sleight/chains" whereas other heroes like PA will probably take damage because she's not INVULNERABLE and has to BLINK NEXT to her enemy to DO DMG, whereas ember does not.
its not afk farming if you use your remnants wisely, and its even better if you have a team that can stack for you
i only go phase/bottle if im losing the lane, in which i delay my bfury til about 20 minutes if its really tough
otherwise its usually a 10:30-16:00 bfury, and the 2nd one comes in even faster because he um.. yeah flash farms.
if he wasn't able to, the stats you can check wouldn't be physically possible to obtain, no? you're not going to farm the same way with bane. i.e. other heroes have a CAP of how much farm is possible to get given their skill build/item build.
ember's cap exceeds what you think it does
from majority to every... stick with one simpy gimpy
Well of course battlefury has a higher winrate, people sell drums in late game or even skip them if they're already owning hard. Those 9 to all stats actually mean a lot in the early game when it comes to casting 1 more spell to finish off an opponent or surviving a stun just long enough to escape. When people start ganking you early you're gonna feel how that extra hp/mana come to use.
MADS all of your data comes from killing low tier players
you cant seem to think outside of your little box and think maybe 'could this only be because my opponents are so bad at this game that they dont punish a straight bfury rush'
Nobody is arguing that Bfury is the best item on him (well at least not me or anyone who ACTUALLY looks at facts) but NO DECENT player will let it work out.
And I am done arguing with this 2k MM player who seems to think he is the new ember spirit prophet
I think the easier, and probably safer build is going early flame guard.
However, just because most people do something does not mean it's the only way. Watch some highly skilled players stream ember and you'll see some play SoF + Bolas build successfully. However, these players are exceptionally skilled, so they harass very well while also landing a high number of last hits. Dendi, for example, does not go flame guard first, but he is far more skilled than pubbers. He bottle crows with ease, last hits better than most, and almost always lands his SoF Bola combo.
@ OP
As for when to go flame guard first, I'd probably max it out early if you desperately need a little magic dmg block. Ember is super squishy. It might also be worth maxing first if your opponent is a right clicker with little/no magic damage, bc you can pop your shield and they can't break it. So you get easy last hits both in lane and in jungle, plus free harass.
SoF + Bolas really hurts squishy chars, and it allows you to harass from farther away. Another benefit I have seen is bolas prevents your opponent from getting a few last hits. Wait until the wave clashes, you pop your combo, run back and get your cs, his gets denied or dies while he's bola'd. It only stops a few of his last hits, but over several minutes can add up.
(I am not a skilled ember spirit player btw. Just started trying him out recently, and have a ton of work to do. His playstyle is not similar to what I typically do)
Never said it was the only way I just stated why exactly EVERY pro makes it EVERY game.(Only one match comes to mind where TC didnt finish his drums to get Bfury faster in a match they where so far behind and they needed it for high ground defense and left it with just a casual bracer)
And no the SoF chain combo is not really a 'pro' move since most people in the 4k bracket can pull it off with ease.
@Sampson
I wasn't arguing with you, I actually agree with you. I almost always go SoF Bola build tbh. I'm just saying Flame guard first can be viable, especially in my 3k bracket nubfests =)
And the combo isn't a pro move, but I see lots of non-pros miss it FAR more than a pro would. It's not a true skill shot, bc it's not that hard to do, but the timing changes depending on how many units are in it.
sampy lampy are you mad that you're in the same bracket im in
just because you think i'm in 2k or you're above doesn't mean that's reality
check for yourself scrub
if you consider yourself low tier then so be it
have you ever thought, "maybe they have?"
and maybe with some good positioning, i avoided it?
omG #pro
no, seriously. two invulnerable spells.
but if you're willing to admit you're in shit tier and that i've trashed shit tier players then im fine with that
the fact that you think his ulti is a invulnerable spell shows how shit tier you are.....
Because I do not practice so my performance is awful in pubs which is why I am only 4k which imo still is shit tier
And no MADS your noob is showing again. Storms ulti gives immunity while embers does not. Plz learn mechanics before you discuss a hero.
really whos gonna hit you between you and your remnant?
are you really that pathetic .__.
i like the excuses, keep em rolling
you cant dodge targeted projectiles yes
thats what fist is for
unless you're taking the absolute definition of invulnerable
in which case omniknight's guardian angel wouldn't count
Lütfen yorum yapmak için giriş yapınız
when to go QW build? when to go flame guard build? item progression? phase vs arcane? discuss