General Discussion

General DiscussionLich discussion

Lich discussion in General Discussion
Blurrybob

    So I've been trying 5th pos Lich for 3-4 games now and all lost. Imho he falls off greatly post 40 minute mark. He's not Lion who can disable 2 heroes. His ultimate is pure luck not to jump to neutrals. He does have +150 damage buff talent branch but who needs damage on lich? So are u doomed to lose if u have Lich and your carries didnt outfarm enemy carries? What to do if game goes beyond 45 minute?

    Emiya

      i am normal skill scrub anyway but whatever
      i think that lich shall change to a fourth core/semi-core to be able to do something in the late game otherwise i think he will be a walking +armor machine

      Potato Marshal

        The whole point of lich is that you can pretty much win any lane no matter who the enemy offlane is. The worst offlane you could go against is probably a Brood, or maybe someone like Void who can backtrack all your frost blasts. His ult is best used in the middle of busy team fights, or if you can force staff/glimmer into the middle of the enemy team. If you just cast chain frost from the max cast range, the enemy team can see who the orb is targetting, and have time to disperse due to the how slow the orb is.

        I usually go sacrifice at level 1 and 3, then max blast by 7. As long as you can catch someone off guard, there should be no reason why you can't kill most enemy heroes with both a blast and chain frost with the help of another ally. You also need to stop rushing eul's every game, force staff and glimmer are almost always better unless you really need the dispel from things like silence or corrosive haze/track. Aghs is also very situational and wand is almost always core. Despite having sacrifice, Lich often has mana problems early game due to his small mana pool, so wand is pretty handy here. Atos is also a very good situational item as you lack a way of disabling channeling outside of chain frost mini-stun.

        Potato Marshal

          I haven't played an actual lich game after 7.00, so that might have changed with more people going earlier points in sacrifice. You can win any lane by simply spamming frost blast at the enemy offlaner and attack moving a few times afterwards.

          evy

            You don't want to pick lich and go to the lategame
            He's a lane destroyer that helps his team to steamroll and snowball from that point before the enemy team can recover
            I think he's in the same position as he was before in the last patch, laning phase is more important than ever because you can't just go to the jungle spamming balanced talon if your laning phase is shit, but roaming supports are way more superior than static lane babysitter (like lich) in the current meta, so it kinda balances one way to another

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            Nile

              Every lich picker should be reported.

              RIP

                in normal skill you should be going beyond godlike on lich and get 6 slotted by the said "40 minute mark"

                Riguma Borusu

                  in normal skill you shouldn't be picking lich because whoever wins lanes doesn't matter if you don't finish the game quickly

                  I remember playing support in NS just so that we win all lanes, and then have everyone feed three times, lose all advantage, the enemy carries get farmed as fuck and we lose.

                  In normal skill, you pick something that scales well no matter what happens, if you want to win most games. Supports with saves, lots of CC or high damage output are the best for this reason, because they never stop being useful. Lich can spam armor lategame and it's pretty good, but otherwise he's really underwhelming. And every game in normal skill has a 90% chance to be over 40 minutes because people have no fucking idea how to close them out.

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                  Pilot

                    Level 25 talent tree. Don't get the attack with MS/AS slow. Get the +25 Frost Armor. If you're close enough to attack your enemies your positioning is usually off.

                    Also, you're correct in stating that lich falls of greatly. In matches longer than 50 mins, I have only won 47% of them. Your goal is to create as much space in the early game so that it won't get to that point.

                    Don't just stay in one lane. Once you've secured the advantage there, try to help the others. Lots of the small things you do in the early game help. Also, you don't always have to max your Q. Experiment with maxing E last or Maxing W first especially with enemy line ups with physical cores that start helping out early (aka Monkey King). It slows down their progression a lot and it keeps you out of vision for longer (so less chance of getting out of position).

                    Late game: Aghs is usually a game losing item. There are so many better options (glimmer/lotus/atos/mek if your team doesn't have). I also noticed that in your builds, you like going for late game items first (such as aghs). Stack your early game advantage. Don't spread it out to the late game where that advantage is lost.

                    Story Time

                      is Hex any good on lich?

                      Riguma Borusu

                        ^if you can build it, it's amazing, of course

                        Also as far as your damage output goes, aghs is actually rather decent if your team has elaborate setup for you to utilize it. Basically, if you haev magnus or void or enigma, etc. But even in those cases, being able to save teammates with defensive items or not feeding are priorities, not DPS. I guess in normal skill you can spam building aghs most games because people are dumb enough to eat your ultimate, but against people who play with any competency it's useless without really good setup.

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                        evy

                          Hex seems amazing on paper
                          Never had the chance to buy it because I usually do my job and the game ends at 30 minute mark or less
                          Would be an amazing 4th or 5th item I think

                          evy

                            I would only buy agha if there is a setup hero, AND HE CAN ACTUALLY SET THINGS UP
                            I won't buy agha with a braindead void who buy MoM against 5 disabling kiters and chronos more teammates in one match than the amount of enemy hero he has chronoed in his entire life