General DiscussionTB viable?

you might just be extremely talented at tb

ofc its viable

imo, yes he is viable, but luna is better atm

miracle plays tb like constant and its free mmr if your not trash and im pro tb
he has like 11 armor at lvl 1 like wtf rekt sven sf everyone
i actually love tb most from safe carrys

Threads like this make me feel like I missed a patch or something. That nerf happened last year or something, of course he's viable, great hero, fights like a champ, does tons of hero and tower dmg. If you don't counter his illusions then gl.

I stopped playing dota and when i came back TB had more hp and 3 more armor

can someone tell me - am i going to lose games because i skip treads on this hero? i usually want travels before manta, but going something like boots band band band treads dlance yasha travels seems ridiculous

@ Dire Wolf
I think there was another nerf to illusion tower damage recently. I think it was in one of the small patches.

no need go travels u can just go treads lance difusal manta skadi butter like miracle does he never go travels

I have a question that in my mind is directed to jdf8: how do I farm with this hero? I understand getting lane creeps shouldn't be that hard with practice, but what about that hard camp pull 'n' stack? How do I clear that stacked camp?

so you stack it a bunch, right? 3-4 times, so its a big damn stack

then you have 2 options -

1: pull it at 53 or 23, pop meta and clear it with 2 illusions

2: give it to an ally like underlord, axe etc

however, its much more feasible to just stack it once and clear every 2 minutes, if you even have unobstructed hard camp access

much more often some retard 4k is single pulling the large camp and or the camp is blocked and we didnt buy sentries

tb has a ridiculous ability to stack that is often neglected, it's the best use of low level illusions IMO. the far away medium camp and the small camp are both very easy to stack with illus, especially on dire. it just takes a little foresight on when to spawn the illusion (~28)

my skill build is usually something like E W E W W -> either sunder or E W E R

ofc the truth is most of getting stupid gpm on tb is just jungling ur hero and farming a lane with illusions, then swapping lanes every time they come to gank you and taking towers if they ever commit tps to 1 lane or fight

however, its much more feasible to just stack it once and clear every 2 minutes, if you even have unobstructed hard camp access

You see that's my question. How do you even clear a camp, let alone a stack, in the early levels with main hero and an illusion that isn't even maxed? What items do I need?

much more often some retard 4k is single pulling the large camp

You see I'm dumb and I didn't really understand that. What's wrong with pulling it? Also sometimes you can stack and pull at the same time. Can you kindly explain?

its fine to pull it but they will pull without stacking then autoattack the large camp, creating a double wave situation

then 2 minutes later their offlaner has lvl 6 no matter what i do i am a SAD TERRORBLADE

stacking and pulling is fantastic, single pulling the small camp is fine IF you know how to connect the pull

in a perfect world 1 support would zone as SWM or something and the other would spam pull the small camp into the medium camp or roam mid, i would stack the large camp every minute and then have 100 cs at 10 minutes with min 3 treads and min 8 dragon lance, but thats not how dota works

you CANT clear a stacked camp at low lvl, you kinda need lvl 5-6 with 3 in both skills to clear a stack + pms + double band of elvenskin or treads

which is why you dont make these huge stacks on tb, you make little stacks and clear them every couple of minutes by abusing ur tankiness + PMS (+ treads) and either have an illusion cs in lane or shove the lane out first

i think at lvl 5-6 ur illusion can solo a small camp also, except maybe the ghost camp that ones spooky af

Do I need to activate the 3rd skill?

if you have a big stack yes, for a single stacked large camp probably not, pull the wave to it to tank and u will be fine

i max 1st and meta at 8 then i max ilus :(((((

Last question for the night: does am counter terrorblade or is it vice-versa?

I skip treads, just doesn't seem to benefit him that much.

I go pretty much the same build every game, brown boots, aquila, dragon lance, yasha, travels or sometimes I finish manta and then travels, then skadi, butterfly. Bkb after manta if needed, and if you're going to fight a ton early, dominator after dragon lance is actually pretty good and satanic late is fantastic. Diffusal I guess is good but I only get it if omni is around.

tb wins against antimage i think

it really depends on the items and the rest of the heroes.

dont max q that shits awful 1-2 points max most games i skip it because im autism

im pretty sure you get diffusal every game after manta before skadi (upgrade immediately unless vs slard / omni / silences) dominator seems absolutely awful no offense, tb doesnt need lifesteal at all out of combat, i think heart is a better fit than satanic anyway idk

especially with treads and either aquila or rdrop it is very easy to sustain illusion spam and get a ridiculous amount of farm. i jsut dont get how to break 900/1k gpm with this hero. ill try in a lobby later

https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2823430728
never again

ur farm and items suck smh

just rotate into jungle if sk pudge is buttfucking you, idk how you died so much

bkb too early, talon unnecessary, etc

yeah he's good. high mmr players used to run it mid against alch because of his insane base armor

omg i lost high skill game with tb :((
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2699660846

you needed diffusal and pike, swap out BKB or bfly for diffusal

hard game to rat, so usually the solution is to outfarm then bully ur team into roshing

yes difusal definitely pike too vs anti but too many slots gone i think lance should be in stash..i knew i couldnt win cause of dagon blood and sf abandon and i remeber bristle is like 3k if he was nornal we would win ..feels bad when lose to high skill

omg i lose to normal skill too fuck m life
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2725387541

hm 1k gpm on terror is not eaasy but you need to end game sooner and take all towers and as most kils and lasthits u can ..i can do like 900 in normal skill but on vhs never did

"dominator seems absolutely awful no offense"

It is, but it's god mode for fighting cus meta does so much dmg. You can solo rosh with it too. Thing is TB fights a lot now, I just prefer it most times unless so far ahead it doesn't matter.

Like I'm 90% sure we'd have won this if I went satanic https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2768031037 cus once it got late and my bkb wore off they'd dagon me twice and I couldn't fight through veno aghs ticks cus it last so damn long.

Maybe it's cherry picking but last 10 tb games I'm 7-3. I'm 5-0 when building dominator/satanic and 2-3 when I don't. Maybe it's just my style or whatever but it works very well for me.

and why are there two JDF8s? wtf confusing

theyre both me

<---- losing 4k games

i feel like in a real game 2 full hp lives is enough, and if you are chain stunned heart gives you a better chance of getting sunder off than satanic + you can die on the first hp bar because ur chain stunned and never get satanic off

plus heart illus is 1000+ hp which is hella useful and satanic is 500 hp exactly

i try my best to avoid fighting until im so huge that i can kill everyone and am in low risk of dying, unless they are out of position or i can turn a teamfight by tping

against veno satanic > heart for obvious reasons

Heart is very good but the building is pretty bad, whereas dominator is a super early item. I know on paper it's horrid, I just like it personally. Try it or don't, your mileage may vary.

"i try my best to avoid fighting until im so huge that i can kill everyone and am in low risk of dying, unless they are out of position or i can turn a teamfight by tping"

I don't think that's TB's role anymore. He's quite the physical damage dealer with a shit ton of armor so he is low risk of dying just with aquila and lance. You just can't 1v1 obvious heroes like slark and lc. Plus if your team has any disables like an axe, tide or void to frontline he puts out so much dmg at range, you can take all the team fights starting like ~15 mins and still have your illusions farm if you want.

If you are trying to avoid fighting then I would definitely skip treads. You don't need them to farm, travels early can help you farm faster.

ur farm and items suck smh
just rotate into jungle if sk pudge is buttfucking you, idk how you died so much
bkb too early, talon unnecessary, etc

enemy jungle w/ smoke, carry tp

eventually the situation will resolve itself or you will feed. alternatively, if you are lvl 5/6 you can go ancient and buy wards to cover urself

yes treads helps you farm faster because it reduces conjure image to ~50 manacost in the early game i believe

in fights against any decent team they have aoe and ur illusions vanish

thats why you need manta / skadi / lvl 20 something

its way fucking harder to stop a splitpushing tb than a deathballing one, considering he has what 900 hp max? thats 4 nukes and ur gone. 1 aoe spell and ur illusions are at 10% hp especially if you put 1800 gold into dominator, an item that does nothing for illusions

lategame satanic is viable but early domi is absolutely game losing no offense

good shit jdf8, solid 5/7 advice

So, assuming you farm jungle and farm lane creeps with your illusions (in the early-mid game), what's your reasoning behind an early BoT?

early bot matrice or zenoth said it was like you move around the map faster cover the map sucking up all the farm

quelling blade early bot and yasha was like the build for speed farm, then core items. their 1k gpm technique is lots of practice and precise map movement and farm pattern though

ur illus walk faster = more cs,

another way to think of it is that ur illusions can be spawned further from a lane and still get to the creep wave, or you can spawn them nearby and maybe get 2 waves or 1 wave + camp,

or you can push lane and send them to a camp, etc. more ms = illusions spend more time hitting creeps = more gold and lanes pushed in further

you can tp to other lanes and go back to farming = more space for ur team when you constantly force the enemy to switch lanes hunting you

dlance is an obvious core item its meta on every agi range core and tb uses it better than almost any other

yasha = more ms, much more attack speed and some damage. yasha is the only +attack speed item in the game that works on illus

Lol this is my tb games.
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2439216208
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2464621852
After that I lost cuz I'm a 1k shitter who can't farm and got buttfucked by SK or like a jakiro + undying lane

Level 10 TB with dragon lance and aquila has 1060 hp. Idk why you think that's low, jug level 10 with aquila has less, sven only has like 1300 and it's cus he uses power treads. TB has enough hp with lance to fight once he has his ult.

idk what you do when you deathball at 15 minutes and all of ur damage vanishes to powershot/illusory orb/burrowstrike

ur illusions dont have 1060 hp, they have 215 hp lol

my last game our tb died so much in early game, but still stronger than a fat spectre so i would never want to fight against tb tbh hes goddamn strong

Against which heroes should I pick TB?

Against which heroes should I not pick him?

Is he good against the common pub picks (I.e. Ursa, sven, slark, sniper, drow, pl, pa, bristle, OD, huskar, riki etc.)?

If I am against pa, when should I get mkb? Or should I not get mkb at all and work with skadi+bloodthorne (bkb doesn't isn't a problem people don't buy that at my level)?

After what items should I start splitpushing?

^ idk what hit u but it seems that u play in the same bracket as i do, and people here, especially pa, always went bkb

btw pick tb if u need super strong one target damage (against ursa, bb, roshan, dk etc)

Well yes that's true, the aoe kills your illusions, but you still put out tremendous dmg with meta just you.

Idk exactly what he counters, some say anti mage but I don't know why. Basically he is really good if you have no answer for his illusions and nothing to pressure him or lock down to avoid sunders. Like I don't really like playing him vs slark cus slark can kill him so easily early while he's trying to farm up and you can't sunder slark cus he'll ult.

Lion and OD are great counters. People lion can't reliably kill your illusions with drain cus he'll die which is kind of true but lion has 2 cc's for sunder and a huge magic burst spell in finger. OD kills your illusions in like 2 seconds with his orb. Lina is pretty good too again for cc and massive magical burst.

And then aoe, ember's good, earthshaker is pretty good, sven is not really good though. Once TB has pike and skadi he can kite sven for days.

PA is rough, I guess see what your team is doing and if you really need to focus the PA or can kill everyone else and kill PA last. If you really need mkb probably do lance, aquila, boots, manta, mkb before skadi. Maybe after skadi if you can get away with it. I'd still rush manta though.

terrorblade is best against SINGLE TARGET AND PHYSICAL DAMAGE

terrorblade is worst against AOE MAGIC AND PURE DAMAGE

terrorblade is worst against PICKOFF STYLE HEROES like storm spirit who can kill you in a splitpush, as well as strong aoe like sand king that can kill all your illusions

tb suffers against timbersaw sand king and to a lesser degree axe in lane, as well as aggressive dual lanes involving abaddon or lich

tb has minor meepo syndrome in that you can outfarm "counters" if ur good enough

get mkb against pa i think, after either skadi or diffusal (i go dlance manta diffusal skadi usually)

disagree on the pick off, him being able to remotely push out waves makes it difficult for pick off based heroes without aoe to play