Well game 1 you picked Phantom Lancer which is useless
Game 2 support BH isn't dagon,crit MKB.
Game 3 you wasted 5000 gold on a crit, over BKB or butterfly
I had guardian grieves in game 2, but I sold them to buy travels. Watch the games before you judge please. Game 3, I bought crits because I dealt basically no damage, you'd know if you watched. They were big.
My items being a joke didn't matter, it was too late when I started buying carry items. A bh isn't outcarrying a sven at 50min+.
you can do so much more with hex/halebad/solar/lotus than with carry build. u dont need to literally outcarry people to win.
They bought like 3 gems and 50 sentries(No joke lol). While my team was all over the place, specially veno, they were sticking together and pushing aggressively. I was barely able to do anything, it was over like 5-10min after LS left, I wasn't the carry.
If i cant win normal skill matches, your realy not better than your mmr, cuz every 4k Player can win almost 9v1 on this Rating.
This is a team game and I did more than my part each game. No team to rely on = Automatic loss. I give every game my all, but some seem to simply not give a shit, as you can see from the above games.
Don't let anyone tell you that there are not complete retards in the dota community who will completely fuck your game up.
ESPECIALLY in these recent patches where an early advantage is so crucial.
(you can come back for sure with some good team fights but an early advantage is always pretty ideal)
There are people so toxic that I guarantee even top tier players will just be like "ok i am done" and go afk in base while they alt tab.
It's extremely ridiculous.
dota should not be about : who ever gets less clueless teammates win.
Although being a good carry def increases you chances of winning by TONS..
this includes many things.. picking the right hero.. maybe even joining team fights wiht your retards if you know ytou'll come out of it with an advantage.. farming efficiently.. threatening their lanes/towers by pushing creep waves etc .. knowing who to target in fights and what spells to use on who.. not getting gnaked.. ESPECIALLY in late game..
its a lot of shit..
you might think ur good til u fac an enemy carry who is skilled as well.
either way,
if ur an account buyer i will give u my address feel free to suck my ****
I agree with you Yolo
And I'm not an account buyer, I saw your post lol
I've been playing for a really long time, but it's only recently that I've started having issues with teammates.
And this is precisely why i spam mid ember lol. I don't give a shit about how badly the game is going on the sidelanes, once I have travels I just go fuck them up and get that sweet comeback gold if things are really that bad but I gotta say, I haven't gotten people like you described in my games for a long time, I don't even remember the last time it happened.
If you realy want to get better u have to change your heros, on your bracket all of Your top 5 heros are shit. Also u need to work on your Farm, like 320 lh in 60 min with spec is very Bad.
Well dota needs those trash to keep playing, and it also needs people like u and me that want to get better, to also keep playing, so how do you bate a bad player and a good player to keep playing ?
Easy:
1. for the good player - when he starts wining, u make it harder for him to succeed
2. for the trash player - when he starts loosing a lot, u make it easier for him to succeed
Easy dota algorithm...
It's stuff like this why I stopped playing.
Supports (or players who don't hog income) are essential but nobody wants to do them for extremely obvious reasons that never get addressed while everyone bitches about a lack of support items rather than thinking why they themselves don't want to play support either. Venomancer jungle is now a thing, previously I took stats on junglers and Venomancer well and truly didn't qualify, now... well, it's a thing, it still isn't listed but it won't take long. It's not too bad either mind you, compared to say Legion Commander or Lifestealer, both of which have significantly worse records on jungle compared to middle lane and safe lane respectively.
With Veno you can get level 6 by 5 minutes and start contributing with level 3 plague wards, ult and such but I doubt many will actually go this route and end up going midas or something and start doing stuff at 20-25 minutes at best assuming their jungle doesn't get run over. However Legion's not 'awful' either if done well but that's extremely rare. She's far better off in mid, but jungle isn't as bad as people say it is, it's just rightfully got a really awful reputation because so many players do it badly because of the type of game they want to play. Too bad that game isn't actually dota and it's some sort of RPG. The final boss does not sit happily in the lair and wait for them to get all their nice shiny items before making their move, in dota, there is no plot protection, they will come and eat the 'protagonist' first.
The sad thing is they will win games sometimes without realizing just how badly their team carried them while they did nothing but when they lose it's their teams fault for not allowing the afk jungle meaning these people will never learn. It's a continued belief that 'oh there are 4 people farming instead of 3, we'll win late if they just hang on' but the problem is those 4 people are farming far less efficently then the other teams 3 due to the lack of map presence and one of the supports will be very very dirt poor and generally pretty unhappy about supporting 4 cores. Really out of my last 30 games, I think only 3 had 3 cores, 4 cores isn't the exception these days its the rule and I've had enough of it...
Even in my last Viper game, I ended up buying upgrade courier and most wards and detection... it did win primarily because mid stomped badly (how many games end one way or the other because of this honestly...? Too many IMO...) but it's not the point. Support and support items are not fun and players just shove that 'duty' onto one person or in many cases, it does not get done.
Of course everyone can always improve, only a fool would say otherwise, it's not about 'mad because bad' it's about 'this just isn't fun anymore because people are selfish'. The problem is support is so undesirable and like gambling on the ability of your carry that it's simply more appealing for many to be the '4th core' or fight your own team for mid, then one of those two fight the safelane carry for farm. Fun! Why invest in others when you can invest in yourself! The thought process isn't that thought out of course, but it is what it boils down to and honestly, I just can't stomach this game anymore while 4 greedy cores is the rule rather than the exception. Support needs to be made more fun then it is currently. Yes there are some who enjoy it, fine but the stats show many hate it and avoid it like the plague.
^somehow I enjoyed your post , lul.
Normal skill games doesnt recognize early advantage, if they got early advantage, they will throw.
Check my games, 80% matches end up with comeback lul, so if you have more carries, you will win, cause they will dominate you early game > throw > your carries become fat > comeback.
My sniper game also the same, lose early game, then slark did a comeback, when we started winning, kunkka buy rapier and drop it xD. IO stole it from lifestealer and dropped it.
There's only 1 clear algorithm in NS
If Dominating, then throw
xD
Lol. Somewhat true but it's not only a matter of winning or losing and it doesn't always hold, especially if someone your team is notoriously toxic and someone replies and it gets to a flame war, part of the problem with how the pacing of dota is, long death times give people a lot of time to think about how much the game is being thrown. Not saying to change it or whatever, I think dota's got many things it could fix on a base level before that, just saying it's a factor.
People will remember the losses more but the bad things that happen on winning games sting too so when things do go bad it'll all add up. Supporting 4 cores (and let's be honest the team would have five cores a fair amount of the time if someone didn't play support) and not really being able to make use of any early game strengths your hero might have is annoying. Yes, you may win, but it's a bucket load of no fun to just wait for your AM/PA or whatever to clear the jungle over and over and then basically win the game solo.
It's actually a misconception at lower levels that more carries on a team win because early game advantage isn't pressed by weaker players, might be true for a few people but overall supports win games and have much higher win rates then carries on average but unsurprisingly much lower popularity. Supports actually win more at lower levels then they do at higher levels, doesn't make it fun though.
The support certainly enables that win far more then most people realize but they don't get any 'positive feedback' from it, rarely from team mates and the game doesn't give any positive feedback either. Multi WARD! Detection Spree! Rampaging vision! Poor as shit! Wouldn't that be a fun thing for Valve to have in place of multi kill/kill streak as a custom feature, it'd be funny at least.
Let's face it, that sort of thing is satisfying and so rarely comes when you are part of a comeback other then for one or two players and it's usually these two who are actually the least contributing members to the overall victory (since you cannot lose the game before you win it) and what made an 'even game' into a situation where a comeback is necessary in the first place.
I don't know how the game could give more positive feedback without being silly and so therefore the 'unwanted stuff' should just be divided evenly among the whole team but it'll never happen so therefore people being negative/salty about the game comes down to much more then win/lose.
I agree with you peachrocks, but the solution is not to "balance" heroes more out or the like to make carries carry some of that burden too, its meant to be this way with roles which is great. Its just a mentality problem the community has, nothing Valve can do it regarding the heroes in my opinion, coz they are like they are supposed to be for the most part.
Look at this last piece of shit game, with a shit team as always.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2441374765
Sorry toeffelhelten, I just can't agree that it's entirely a mentality problem. You make one role so overwhelmingly desirable with lots of positive feedback and get a lot of control over the outcome of the game then another that has extremely minimal impact and no positive feedback yet still completely necessary and then wonder why nobody wants to do it? Can you honestly blame people for hardly ever playing support? Sure the game works great competitively or with reliable friends but these cases are far rarer then many care to admit.
All the fun for most people gets to be had by cores and all the burden on support. Even quests, some of those are tricky to get on core or are impractical, doing this on support is impossible whereas all of them can be done by a core. Then you've got the fact playing support is like blindly investing on the ability of your carry and mid. There is zero incentive to play support unless you like being a butler and I won't lie some people do, but stats show this number is underwhelming.
Sure people could change their mentality to be 'nicer' and think about others and not have 4 cores every game and not believe having a magic fairy buying wards, detection, courier and a back massage is their god given right but as I said with how the game gives positive feedback and goal setting is there any surprise that it's so lacking? Also why people have such horrid games regardless of role when one player in safe land or mid (or jungle) can have such a huge negative impact on the other four? Hell look at blitz last game, 5 cores... Granted they are 20% guilty of this but seeing as they ended up with the most damage, it's within reason for them to play the core. Other team has 4 cores. This is exactly the sort of thing I'm sick of seeing yet I cannot blame players for not wanting to pick supports either.
People play games for fun, to have fun. The game should intuitively support this, not expect people to undergo magical transformations to become beacons of politeness and civility where the good and bad gets shared across multiple games.
Ya this is probs biggest problem of dota 2 is that support role doesn't feel as rewarding . Ya your mmr will raise so you will be rewarded that way , but each individual game less satisfying .
@Peachrocks
Butler is here! Masochist more likely, to be honest. This game is only fun for me when I play support. I feel rewarded every time my ward spots enemy hero or just by looking at how my teammates grow "big".
BTW, I played Lineage as Shillien Elder and WoW as Druid, Priest, Paladin, Shaman - all healers/buffers. It's in my blood, I guess.
Supporting is hard
In normal skill most of players don't know the imprtance of not dying as carry and push when most of enemy is dead.
@Peachrocks
Also, I hate all supports. I instantly report them for ruining my life of solo support, which I enjoy most.
@Soultrap
For sure, I'm not saying there aren't people out there who do take to it, I've met a few and have them on my friends list but even they agree with the baseline of what I'm saying. Still these are like, maybe 1/50 and there might be about 1/20 probably less who 'main it' because they feel they have to but the rest of people playing support play it begrudgingly and I'm amazed at how nothing ever continues to get done about when every patch is about giving more items and buffs/changes to items cores usually get and support get 50 gold off flying courier and a ward nerf (yes it was a nerf because they have to place them more often and the cost scales to about the same).
There's just bucket loads of overwhelming evidence and the only thing that continues to amaze me is how people just want someone else to play support and not realize why there isn't one and instead think 'oh people should magically transform'.
@Filthy Statistically speaking yes, but as far as I'm aware nobody has done an MMR experiment with only supports and not everyone is going to get the 'luck' they need to win because let's face it, if your Necrophos carry decides to go Radiance first or something or your PA decides to play 'Dota: The RPG' you are screwed. This can happen to you more times then can be statsicailly expected (and most people believe they are being hard done by the system whether they are or not) so, there's no guarantee playing support increases MMR, it 'should', but it's not the best way.
Furthermore both of us said, wins aren't always rewarding and you can gain MMR much more consistently if you are 'above' your level by playing mid lane every game and numerous MMR experiments have proved this. I know quite a few players who have quit or won't even touch dota because of how support stands right now and sure things are slowly getting better but it's nowhere near enough. Not even close.
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If you check my profile, you'd notice that I stopped playing like I used to. I have upwards of like 10 pages of custom games only, because for about a month, I stopped playing ranked/pub because I got sick and tired of playing with retards. ('Oh dude you suck too", "Stay bad", "trash" is what most of the noobs on here are gonna say). I started playing a few games here and there along with some custom games. Today was one of those days I played most. 3 ranked games, lost all 3. Let's break each game down shall we?
Game 1: I'm a safelane pl with an incompetent necro who kept autoattacking, and was up against a trilane bot. Drow picked drow after they picked those heroes they picked(told him it was a bad idea, but what do I know). Invoker(chinese dude with his other chinese friend talking shit on their mics in chinese), failed mid against solo pa(somehow). Who gets blamed for the loss? You guessed it, me. GAME LOST.(-25MMR)
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2439381542
Game 2: Solo support bh, because veno decided to jungle the entire game, like full jung, he bought a total of 0 wards. Bristle fed his lane because he was being too aggressive against a sven/silencer, blamed the team for his deaths. TA lost mid because he refused to believe items such as dust/sentries existed. Lifestealer ended up abandoning and I transitioned to carry, but it was already too late, they ended 5 min later. GAME LOST(-25MMR).
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2439479134
Game 3: I'm a spectre, trying to farm safelane against pudge/slardar, who were very aggressive, but me and es managed. LC abandoned after missing 2 duels. I micro'd him a few times and got him a duel and 2 kills when he left(lol, he was that bad). their AM decides to abandon aswell, so easy game for us right? NO. Puck insisted on farming for 20 minutes after LC and AM left. By that time, their whole team was farming/pushing as 4 with mirana ult. Puck used his sheep a total of maybe 2 times? lol and died immediately after they popped linkens. Why push while we were ahead, lets farm, maybe our orb will kill a 6k hp pudge(rofl). GAME LOST(-25MMR).
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2439584689
Now I know why I stopped playing this shit. Watch my games and dare to tell me I didn't do my best to win us each game. But there's always that one careless fucker that ruins everything. This is my shitty luck I guess.