General DiscussionWho is the EASIEST HERO to play in Dota? Why?

This thread is badly structured and you should feel bad.

Spirit Breaker is ez. U r the bash lord. No one can escape u. Tell team to pick Tusk, and go See Enemy Kill Enemy.

Bristleback
- I go in the lane and right click farm while pressing Quill Spray.
- If they want to kill me, I turn my back on them and run away while pressing Quill Spray.
- Since I have innate tankiness, hopefully I can run to safety while pressing Quill Spray.
- Once I have my core items, I go right click people while pressing Quill Spray
- If they attack me, I turn my back and go back while pressing Quill Spray.
- While in fountain, I can also press Quill Spray.

Necrophos
- I right click farm til I get my items.
- I skill Heartstopper aura so they lose HP instead of the built in regen.
- If I lose HP, i press Death Pulse.
- Once I get my core items, I join my team to fight and press Death Pulse.
- If we're pushing forward, I press Death Pulse.
- If we're going back, I press Death Pulse.
- If I see enemy below 50% HP, I press Ulti and then press Death Pulse.

I agree. Spectre is just as skillful as chen, and you are a very special snowflake

Meepo
-I go to lane and sap exp till lvl3.
-I go into nc and spam poof and -refresh
-I get a 10 min aghs and surprise the enemy team with my mlg 360 noscope 420blazeit farm.
-I proceed to explain how no one even cares about that game, and all 10 were knowns.

Spectre is fucking hard though.

If you think she's easy you haven't played her and/or are 2k mmr player.

Spirit Breaker
-I go in the lane and right click and bash.
-If they want to attack me, I charge him, bash.
-Because I have my 170% Bash, he cant run and die
-I bash his lanemate 6 times in a row. He's dead too.
-I Go fountain. I charge some other lane, and bash.
-Rinse and Repeat.

i never understood how to play spectre
when i play her i'm never relevant
when enemy plays her the game is over when she gets radiance

Necrophos
- I right click farm til I get my items.
- I skill Heartstopper aura so they lose HP instead of the built in regen.
- If I lose HP, i press Death Pulse.
- Then I lose too much mana, I'm fcked.
- I died, then my teammates died, My team's fcked.
- Rinse and repeat, press Death Pulse, lose too much mana, no more skills to use and die.
- My ancient's fcked.

WK is also a carry...

I really think the current (overpicked) "hero of this meta" are the easiest to play. There is a reason why they are among the most powerful; as their skill floor must be lower than some other arbitrary mark for the other heroes.

Lmao he is teh flamerinoh king of 3.7K SEA

Depends on skill level

At 1k mmr, sniper is easiest hero to play
At 5k mmr, sniper is hell hard and u cant do shit unless u r fucking god of positioning

Vice versa situation with Io and earthspirit, for example

@Mushi mango dude, mango

Spectre requires global awareness. That's not exactly the easiest thing in my book. If you are really good you'll notice 1v1 pickoff opportunities or turn dives around using ult or help your team gank etc. Plus spectre sucks at farming and needs farm. Finding that is not always easy.

I can think of a ton of heroes that are way easier, wk, viper, bb and necro as mentioned, bloodseeker. Even zeus, he's like the ranged spectre equivalent and he's easier imo.

If you mean mechanically probably WK
While if you include positioning and awareness Drow, Spectre and Sniper become relatively hard

I think the easiest hero to play overall is PA. Blink for positioning, and you can brainless farm lanes because they don't even see you on the map.

Lich is and will always be the easiest hero in dota.

Support to learn the game with, high damage nuke with an AoE, free experience and mana for more nukes, free tankyness (and debuffing on enemies) because your mana is infinite, ultimate that may punish your opponents' bad positioning, but also depends on RNG, so it sometimes doesn't even matter and you can use it after someone else.

He doesn't even need items, but can farm reasonably fast for a support should he need to.

@Dire Wolf, every hero needs map awareness... how else do you gank, avoid ganks, counter gank, identify farm and so on and so forth? You can describe a bunch of cool sounding stuff about how to be a good spectre but it will definitely apply to some other hero BUT HERES THE CATCH, there's nothing special about playing spectre that DOESN'T apply to other heroes. It's like saying you have to think in checkers. You have to think in chess too lol.

@BX There are plenty of low skill high impact heroes in dota. I never said every other hero was hard. Like if I had a noob friend who is going support, I'd suggest something like a Lich instead of a Rubick.

Positioning is much more crucial on Necrophos. Overextend, he gets killed easily because though tankier than most Int heroes, he has no escape mechanisms and walks slow. Stand too far behind, he can't get his ult off. Bristleback has to deal with offlane scenarios. On paper stacking quills and raping sounds so easy but you're a carry player right? When playing against a Bristleback do you let him stack quills and kill you so easily? No. You keep the stacks down, you force him to push wave and he will find it hard to dive tower against you with low mana against your full charge sticks. Ironically these 2 heroes can be incredible early game with clutch baiting and dancing around with low hp ending up in reversals. A bristleback with a bad start also falls off unlike a spec who can always catchup if the game drags. A necrophos who fucks up early and becomes a squishy walking ult can be utterly useless if his teammates can't provide him the damage output.

lol Zano great minds think alike. lich is a low skill high impact hero

but if we're talking skill ceiling, then a good support/offlane Lich can do a lot more than that. it isn't as easy as pressing chain frost the moment you see an enemy. i'm too lazy to explain like I do to bx but i think you get what i mean. rotations, good timed chain frosts blablabla

uh you have a frail hero with no wave clear = very easily picked off. you usually wont have the chance to dagger into trees if you dont have a hp item

with the new change to her ulti that doesnt destroy illusions that you dont reality to, with 0 cast time 0 mana cost, you have insane mobility around the battlefield which also adds to her mechanical skill cap

only appears easy cuz shes broken as fuck, you can play her sub optimally and in a brain dead manner (eg. boots stout radiance ) and still rake in the mmr

lol isn't that what i said in my all my earlier comments in the prev thread

you can accomplish nothing early game on your own, the best you can do is throw q and hope your teammates are handling the fight well enough than you can walk up and right click, your ult is mostly for relocating early and barely does any damage, its not like a gyro or jugger turning around a bad situation, you can only contribute to fights that were already going well in the first place

then next what, since you can't do anything early game, your job is to farm farm farm farm and once you've sufficient farm, walk up into enemies and tank for your team while you rightclick people. also press ulti to cause chaos, like a ravage or chrono you neither have to time nor place it well, you press r the moment the fight starts

you dont even need to spam buttons like a bristle, you literally rightclick som1 and chase them down

are you using reverse psychology to help me prove my point

uh she has a weak lane but shes pretty strong early game aswell
and no i dont read your posts, i was just merely responding to the quoted post in OP

Earth Spirit

-Press Q to Stun (CANCELS TP, KICK PPL TO CLIFFS)
-Press W to Slow (KILLS THE OFFLANE, AND THE MID EZ)
-Press E to Silence (PLAYING AGAINST PUCK OR STORM? EZ KATKA)
-Press R to ULT (EZ PHOENIX ULT + SILENCER ULT)

How did no one mention 'your mom'

Yeah, I've had my own share of solo offlaning Lich experience.

It irks me to see other Lichs not using Frost Armor on creeps to mitigate their antipush abilities when it can and becomes a hindrance or forgetting that Chain Frost has a bkb-piercing mini stun and let an Enigma pull off a full duration Black Hole or a Nevermore an extremely close to your allies Requiem of Souls.

If we talk about heroes who just can't do much, I guess it's Viper, who doesn't do much other than damage and slow a lot, punishes being attacked by procing a slow with damage, is tanky and doesn't draw creep aggro.

Support Venge? She's just expected to do support jobs, she has a stun, a nice long rage armor AOE reducing ability that does minor damage (good for team fights early on) Vengeance Aura which is a passive (and is great for team fights if you have strong right clickers) and her ultimate isn't the best in the game, or even close to it, but it's pretty self explanatory. She's a perfect beginner hero.

forgetting that Chain Frost has a bkb-piercing mini stun

I never knew that in the first place. I often forget to armor buildings though. I'll use his ult for solo pickoffs all the time though, can't stand people who have to lineup perfect ults only. If you get a kill on a carry it's worth. support it's worth it as long as you won't need the ult 30 seconds later.

Viper of course lmao. Wraith King, despite being touted as 1 button click hero, is melee, not to mention Reincarnation timing and using is very important on him.

axe imo

Spectre is completely worthless without items and is team dependent since her laning is so awful. Any hero that is entirely dependent on items automatically has a decent skillfloor because you have to have map awareness and farming efficiency.

Any hero that can run around solo killing people early-mid while also scaling decently enough (e.g. storm) has a far lower amount of skill required to play at a decent level. Skill cap is another issue but not one that typically ends up mattering.

Viper, Leshrekt, Undying, Bara, WK are brain dead heroes.

It's bloodseeker. I say that because it's the only super effective jungle that has almost 0 thought process to hp and mana requirements.

The easiest hero to play in doto is wraith king WITHOUT a blink dagger.

wraith king or lich

I honestly don't understand why some people think "no skill" heroes are boring or need to be reworked. Winning is more fun than losing, and if your reflexes and game understanding only lets you play "easy heroes", it's better to win with those than lose and get flamed for trying Meepo, Io, or Puck. The only reworks, in my opinion, should be for unworkable mechanics or overpowered heroes. Being "too easy to play" should not be a reason. In fact, most of the "no skill" damage heroes require more effort in something else.
Skeleton King without blink dagger is just not viable.
Sniper, Drow, and Zeus may be very simple heroes, but they have no escape or health.
Spectre and Phantom Lancer may be #1 carries but they are also very weak early, will likely be counterpicked, and face the concentrated attacks of the enemy team (who will aim to kill or deprive farm). Farming and winning despite all their attacks is far harder than doing the same on Anti-Mage.
Bloodseeker's may be an ideal pub hero, but his Q is like mask of madness. Bad judgement against burst damage or stun = dead. Compare this to Slark.

Compared to the above, Viper is far more newb friendly. He's slow, but his Q reduces most enemies to his level without alerting the creeps. His Q is ideal for attacking weakened enemies, fitting the newb mentality of "kill-stealing" and can punish most other 1v1 right-click ganks.

No one is suggesting they need to be reworked. Dota needs some easy heroes for people to learn on and to relax with from time to time.

Playing tb or naga is stressful all the clicking illusions and stuff.

The thing is with say viper you need a lane. A jungle that requires 0 well stops trumps this. Even worst case people say buy tps to counter but this creates space and costs someone a tp which puts another lane in danger of gank and no help coming.

Goddamit I just lost my first game against a Bloodseeker...but it was because 3 of my teammates kept getting lag and sometimes even dcing in the middle of fights, and they were, of course, the core heroes.

On topic: There's a fine line between user-friendly and so-easy-it's-cancerous. Viper is a pretty easy hero, but as I stated above, that same straightforwardness of him limits his possibilities a lot, so he won't become cancerous unless the meta allows him to be so, like a few patches ago.

Viper is hard fyi

carrymancer ez katka

max passive and gale

gale someone and hit them a few times then tp to other lane get double kill

lich. def lich.

Probably Earth Spirit.

Pull creeps into forest so you get free level 3 in offlane, get a blink dagger, blink in and use ulti, silence 1 hero and entire enemy team is silenced, boulder roll into 1 hero and entire enemy team is slowed, not to forget about the damage.

^---lol because you know at the lowest level of playing earth spirit people are yanking creeps into the trees.....

In fact was that bait?

In lower brackets, Earth Spirit's only purpose is to pull a creep to somewhere inaccesible so Tiny can Toss them up there.

I don't know why people keep bringing up farming efficiency and map awareness for spectre. That shit applies to every other carry hero. Except those heroes have more dimensions to them. Wtf.

Anyway @chinesenamedude, if you play dota for the experiencing of winning, why not go play rock paper scissors? you'll get to experience winning at a much higher rate! lol, we play dota because its interesting and unique which makes the playing and winning all the more satisfying. Do you think dota would be as popular if every single hero had 3 passives and one non targetd nuke?

Old pl for example was taken out of the game because he removed any depth of the game he was picked in. They were generally end early before pl gets fat or lose slowly as he rats. They were neither fun nor satisfying to watch or play.

Btw what the fuck the current PL is super strong early and can snowball like some crazy fuk, have you not seen him even run situationally solo mid on some pro games, that hero honestly takes a lot to be played to the maximum level if you opt away from farm farm farm method. Illusion baits, dodging spells, using rush intelligently instead of automatically

you make it sound like you have a valid argument, let me break it down for you boy:

This is where it all started...
Origin: My Spectre ranked 87th
Your Claim: Spectre is shit easy
Reasonable Conclusion: Me ranking 87th in Spectre has NOTHING TO DO with her being EASY to play.
Comment: You were completely Off-Topic, hence I opened a new thread for you.

-----------------------------------------------------
Your claim: "Spectre is the easiest HERO in DotA"
Your arguments:
1) Any soft skill (map awareness, farm safe etc) is an invalid argument because it applies to everyone.
2) Spectre's toolkit doesn't require "THINKING"
- Spectral Dagger. You can do it from a safe position and just hope that people can right click the enemy.
- Haunt. You can just go in and out of fights as you may desire.

Here's my CLAIM: YOU HAVE A FLAWED CLAIM. NO ONE CAN FUCKING CLAIM THAT X HERO IS THE EASIEST HERO TO PLAY.
My Arguments:
1. "EASY" is a freaking relative term to all players. What's "EASY" for you may not be "EASY" for another one. Hence, some people are bad carry, some people are good off-laners, etc. We ain't no FUCKING ROBOTS.

2. You cannot disqualify the validity of the "SOFT SKILLS" (Map awareness, farm safely, etc) because it varies from 1 player to another. Related to item #1. We are freaking humans, our tendencies and decision making are not governed by "PROGRAMMABLE LOGIC".

3. Spectre's Toolkit doesn't require thinking? Let me enumerate to you heroes who has a "NO THINKING REQUIRED" toolkit way worse than Spectre:

- Bristleback's Quill Spray and Nasal Goo
- Necrophos's Death Pulse and Reaper's Scythe
- Wraith King's Stun
and I would even go:
- Lina's Dragon Slave + Light Strike Array (assisted by Euls) + Laguna Blade

I want to quote you, your argument #1 said 1) Any soft skill (map awareness, farm safe etc) is an invalid argument because it applies to everyone.

And yet, you defended my claims in Necrophos and Bristleback using that?
"Positioning is much more crucial on Necrophos. Overextend, he gets killed easily because though tankier than most Int heroes, he has no escape mechanisms and walks slow. Stand too far behind, he can't get his ult off. "
--- POSITIONING, OVEREXTEND, NO ESCAPE MECHANISM, WALKS SLOW?? let me tell you the problems of other heroes: LOW MANA POOL, GET KITED VERY EASY, TOO SOFT, TOO CUTE, TOO PRETTY, TOO DUMB

"Bristleback has to deal with offlane scenarios."
- Yes. Other off-laners deal with offlane scenarios as well. Why can't you put your Bristleback to a safe lane scenario?

"On paper stacking quills and raping sounds so easy but you're a carry player right? When playing against a Bristleback do you let him stack quills and kill you so easily? No. You keep the stacks down, you force him to push wave and he will find it hard to dive tower against you with low mana against your full charge sticks. "
- Do you let Spectre farm up the radiance? Do you let Anti-Mage farm up Battlefury? Can I do anything if an angry and tanky Bristleback decides to chase me while quill-spraying? Do you let your HP go below 50% when fighting against Necrophos or Bloodseeker? Do you let techies plant bombs on areas you don't know?

Ironically these 2 heroes can be incredible early game with clutch baiting and dancing around with low hp ending up in reversals. A bristleback with a bad start also falls off unlike a spec who can always catchup if the game drags. A necrophos who fucks up early and becomes a squishy walking ult can be utterly useless if his teammates can't provide him the damage output."
- Ironically speaking, anyone who fucks up early and has no flash farming tool, CANNOT ALWAYS catch-up even if the game drags. In the early and mid game, Bristleback and Necrophos can actually offer something even with less farm compared to a Spectre/Anti-Mage with less farm.

You are very angry right now.

Thats a huge wall of text so I'll read it once my game is over. EDIT: Nvm someone dodged, I'll read this first.

The one with a major flaw in your argument is you.

In order to defend Spectre as complex, you bring up the skill ceiling that includes farming routes/map awareness and itemization which of course will ultimately make it sound not very easy. Conversely, when trying to make other heroes sound easy, you ignore the skill ceiling of those heroes and say stuff like "hurr durr bb is about spamming w" "lina is just spamming all spellz"

It doesn't work like that.

I consider Spectre the easiest hero OR arguably almost the easiest hero because of the following reasons:

1. At the base, meaning as a noob, he's very easy to get into because he's straightforward in that you just farm and get fat. Other carries have other options like going for kills which is why you get some players going ham and when they fail, end up as a very poor and weak Gyro. Two passives and skills very lenient in their usage help with this a lot.

2. Around the skill cap, to play a Spectre well, the key things are map awareness and farming efficiency. You see, Spectre is much more forgiving than other carries in the late game because of his kit, everyone agrees with this. Your role is to tank so positioning is LESS important and your team is less likely to get wiped because you can always pop in unless you're a dumbass who has it on CD. In other words to play Spectre to its maximum, you have to only be good in X areas. It's not like you don't need positioning or whatever entirely, it's just that a Spec being caught out is a totally different case from a Sniper being caught out.

These two points conclude why Spectre is a very easy hero. At the base for noobs AND at the skill cap.

Then heres why I don't like the hero (this is personal preference):

As many have pointed out, Spectre is a frail hero early game. She has little influence and she can't really create momentum for the team. I don't like how that you have to put your future into the hands of others. Every hero I main or play frequently has the ability to create momentum or reverse the enemy's balling. Instead as Spectre, all you can do is farm (and you have little ability to create farm for yourself...) and once late game hits, you kill them by ramboing into fights instead of making plays like a Sven making a godly 3 man stun and cleaving them apart.

Escape and map awareness applies equally to every carry hero, but it's not equally EASY on every carry hero.
Spectral Dagger (16s), Haunt (120s)
vs.
Blink (5s on AM)
Clearly AM has a far better escape. Also, if you use haunt to escape an enemy gank, that's 120 more seconds where the enemy can safely farm without fear of Spectre jungle ganks.

I don't deny PL can outplay his counters with careful use of his W and E. But that's my point: a good PL needs to do that simply to survive his counterpicks. If he tries to play "brain-dead" auto-attack to win strategy, he dies to lich, earthshaker, or any battlefury/cleave/radiance carry.

I want a relatively unbiased game. IN other words, a hero's skill floor should have no relation to a hero's usefulness so long as he has counters but can also try to counter his counters with skillful play. The old PL was changed not because he was too boring, but because he was too powerful: his illusions lasted long enough to chase, duplicate, and kill entire heroes without the real PL even being nearby. You had to either strictly counter him or die. PL now is fairer because bad PL players can now lose to fast pushing teams or regular magical AoE but he can fight better against his strict counters. Of course, the side effect is that the current version of PL is now more complex than before, but that change is neutral.
I don't want to see a DotA where the newbs play one set of heroes and the pros play an entirely different set of heroes because of some artificial design philosophy that says "only complex heroes with high skill floors" are worthy of being top-tier. The game then turns into something neither side can understand.
By these standards, Spectre is fine. She is flexible enough that a fight against most of her counters late-game is a test of skill for both players, but she is easy to kill/suppress early. This is the definition of a #1 carry, but I don't feel compelled to play necro every game against spectre either.