General DiscussionWhat is with the state of this game?

Nope

Its called the sniper effect.

20K lead to another 20K lead http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1341235007

Taking high ground is so hard esp. against a sniper and that whole game we had just one rax from 30 minutes and they still couldn't do it.

Honestly, it really sucks. I've stalked some of your replays and you're a great player- but based on the lineup/gold advantages you really shouldn't have won that game. Based on druid's items he should have had the game by himself just before ~30 minutes.

One international is played with cheese strats and the structure of the game has to be forever changed because of a single trend in wonky teams.

The best part about dota was ending a game in 15 minutes. Not much time lost if you recieved the stomp, not much time invested if you won. You moved on quickly. Now EVERY game is a 30-60 minute ordeal at the very least. And if you lose in 30 minutes, you endured a half hour of demoralization.

Thanks for the vote of confidence but equally we should have won that game a lot earlier but naix lost safelane to pudge which was incredible and I had an extremely rough start vs terror due to clutch saves from the abbadon.

Natures was bad, terrorblade was farming slowly, lone druid falls off cause bear can get taken out by naix, and abadon isn't really a game changer. So I managed to work with the team and we pulled it together (almost too late) around that last rax and I basically just sat on top of the rax till naix managed to end. Tonks never plays troll and imagine if the troll players was someone who frequently played it? Even easier win.

I think while I lack as a player on individual heroes and overall performance my knowledge of what it takes to win a game is probably one of my strong points. That's the issue nowadays is that people know heroes, are really efficient in mechanics but seriously don't know how to end games properly. Its something that comes with experience I guess.

People need to learn about how to take the advantage and how to play it properly when you have/don't have it.

Sums it up pretty well for a lot of players https://twitter.com/EternaLEnVy1991/status/579033710001053696

Not everyone liked that stomp you know.? Not only your opinion matters. Rubbberband was made to commit the deathball. TI4 was extremely boring. 15 min final game gg without any raxes game. No thanks. Even Ti3 rat final was sooo much better.

^He's right, you know?

Though the fact that every game is Troll, Sniper, SS and Jugg right now is pretty stupid.

i look at terrorblade's farm and i want to cringe

what too many people do now is try to force highground stupidly against heroes that can defend it all day

i mean after a few games you should get the hang of it, if you're winning control the map + take roshan, try to force with aegis

if you cant break with aegis cut your losses and DONT FORCE HIGH GROUND ANYMORE. Just starve them, make sure you have a sizeable item lead and LET THEM PUSH OUT THE LANES. Play passively and put the pressure on them to move out of base, not vice versa.

Sniper is God of the right clickers. Almost 70% winrate this patch as all you need is a support to lock down the jugger/troll for like 2 seconds and you can molest him forever

http://www.dotabuff.com/players/90503334/matches?date=patch_6.83c&hero=sniper&skill_bracket=&lobby_type=&game_mode=&region=&faction=&duration=

I think that what's gonna happen is that there'll be another big patch and these heroes are gonna get nerfed and some other carries are gonna show up because that's just what happens. Can't play heroes that have less than 60% winrate apparently

tbh if we increase Tier 2 tower armor and decrease tier 3 tower armor this entire problem is solved ;/

same net tankiness but since tier 3 has highground it will be a bit easier to push if you can get the enemies off of it

You guys liked 15 min games? I thought they were stupid. Not enough time to get big items if you're winning, and big items and late game fights are most of the fun of the game. Everyone likes seeing big numbers. 30-40 min matches are ideal.

Sniper is pretty retarded right now but I don't know how you balance him. Like others said main issue is people waste advantages.

Maybe just disallow maelstrom/mjollnir on sniper and see how that goes. His wave clear is too insane with one 2700g item.

I'm just surprised sniper wasn't taken out of captains mode after two of his skills changed. He should be reverted back to how he was, tbh he should be under powered, easy to play but bad vs good players.

I liked that 15 minute games allowed me to escape the really toxic players. It feels like every game one of the teams is trapped with a terrorist, and the game is not won by the more talented players, just merely the team with the least trolls.

The meta just feels so close to where league of legends is. 30-60 minutes of bullshitting until 1 player gets caught out at 35 mins and spirals the game out of control for his team. Why not just play league and do the same thing without the screaming people...?

Idk I get stupid people every 4-5 games, legit trolls are not that common though. I don't really understand people's complaints about how toxic the game is, I figured it's just normal for any online game, not better or worse.

Jugg, trolls, snipers are spammed in pubs. At DAC there was used 92% of the hero pool. Is fine. I think PL will be the meta breaker especially at TI if somehow there will be no patches until then( like 6.81 in Ti4) or no major meta changes. I think that troll will get nerfed, sniper not really maybe a bit. I think that PL will become popular and with jugg, troll nerfs maybe AM too. This is to counter sniper somehow

What I was meaning with the 92% was that LoL competitive scenes litteraly hghlights 20heroes of the hero pool. Maybe in our pubs is somehow close to that situation but comps are far from that.

I dont fucking want to watch 15 min gg. Think you buy ticket to fucking TI. Do you want to watch a 15 min final game? I will pay more to hear hihi haha from sniper for a fucking 200min like SFZ vs C9. Thats a nice, tensioned game. Not fucking DP/razor fucking eating heroes and towers for 15 min, running at people with ulti ON.

And btw get used with the idea. This meta is sooo good for TI. People will buy tickets like bread to see comebacks and 100+ games
instead of 15 min gg. I bet on that

// Goddammit I use fucking so many fucking times

Baxter, you say that DAC had 92% of the hero pool used, but although that is good that doesn't mean some heroes weren't most picked. I can't point my finger at which because I don't remember and I don't feel like looking up right now.

Actually, a lot of tournments they always used most of the hero pool. I do remember something like Starladder IX? (I don't remember correctly) Where at one point the only hero that wasn't used was Medusa. That doesn't really mean that it's fine, it does mean that teams are inclined to vary their lineups more often so it isn't too predictable on what they're gonna do so they can actually win games.

The thing is: it's undeniable that these heroes we mentioned are really strong right now and they should be looked into some future nerfs, because you can see in more recent tournments that sniper/troll/slark/jugg picks/bans are still pretty common. The difference that they're not used as much as you'd see in pubs is because they're professionals and they are supposed to know how play against said heroes (with good coordination and good counter picks. Unlike anything you can see in pubs).

The rubberband mechanic is good, though.

I never compared that percent with other tournaments of DOTA but with LoL.

There will be always pro's and pubs favourites. TI3 Furion, alche, maybe a bit of AM cant remember right now.
TI 4 DP/razor/brew
TI 2 Morph blah

There was lycan too, at TI 3 was a bit of naix too.
But, all these got nerfs to oblivion like alche, furion, DP ( wew, this is really oblivion), the tinker meta, the Void one which got finished with 6.83 mana chrono and so on.

But this meta is very good for pro scene, for game enjoyament. Pubs was, are and will always be pubs. thats why I dont think any patchor meta change will come out until TI 5 has finished because Pros are so much more enjoyable.

Yeah. LoL highlights like 20 heroes, that's true. But saying that it's fine because we have more variety isn't really giving DotA that much merit.