I should say that dont judge your carry if he cant last hit properly, remember its a low tier rank game so dont expect too much. If playing support, just do your best to make sure they dont die in first 5 mins of the game.
playing supports at low levels is a waste of time imo. everytime u suck a 3k's dick it makes u worse at dota
if u want to play support just buy a 4k-5k account and play on it lol, i heard some high level support players just grinded to their tier with specific core heroes before playing support, you might as well do it the easy way
Support is, or not, viable if you want to reach 3k. Babysitting players who, for some reason, can't see shit on the mini map. Well, it's still your decision to support at low rank games.
when i'm playing support i start all positive and helpful but usually i give up around 10mins when it is clear the carry is going to waste the gold/exp/vision i'm providing him.
which is a shame because it is really satisfying when you find someone to support who it is worth dying for and being their ward bitch.
playing anything will get u out of that trench tier but I figure that supports like dazzle rhasta or wk would be better as they are useful in all stages of the game
that's how Magnum say ...
But in other way you can't play without a support even at low rank so ... in the end you'll be the one standing there while helping other (those who can) to reach 3K+ :)
Jakiro is good enough to climb to 3500+. Just make sure your carry has free farm while the enemy has 0 farm on your lane. Usually that's not that hard to achieve at that mmr, just make sure you spam liquid fire on cd. After first 10 minutes your team should already have enough advantage to win the game (1-2 towers, farmed carry, starved enemy offlaner(s)).
Don't bother with last hits on lane or with pulling. Just make sure you harass the enemy until your carry gets lvl 6 something.
^ What sort of farm do you try to get with Jakiro? Do you rush mek or any other items straight away? And at my mmr is it worth buying wards the second they're off cooldown? Is there any point you leave safelane to gank other lanes before, let's say, the 5 minute mark?
Buy courier, upgrade it, buy first set of wards if needed. Then get tranquil boots and after, wards on cd. Sometimes mek is built by some viper / dark seer / razor etc. so make sure nobody else wants to build it. Force staff is always good. Then you can get necro, eul, pipe, hex, shiva or whatever your team needs.
Short story: get wards, tranquil boots and force staff. Everything else is situational. You don't need last hits to get them, just don't die. If it's one item you need to rush, that's tranquil boots. Nothing else needs to be rushed.
About leaving lane, I'd say only if enemy offlaner left the lane. At your mmr you might get your carry killed if you leave the lane for longer then a trip to rune and back.
Things I've learnt from playing support in the 2.5K bracket:
Only take CS from the lane if you're certain the carry will miss it (like in the situation where both creeps will die at the same time, it shouldn't happen often but if it does there's no point letting the creep go to waste)
You get a surprising amount of farm and xp from pulling, even more so if you double pull/stack before you pull, so maximising that will help alleviate the low cs issue, as well as giving your carry solo co in the lane while you're away.
In this bracket its usually ok to sap some xp in the lane if you're harassing the enemy, but when you aren't you should aim to either roam to midland or continue to pull it it is required. As most lanes are 2-1-2 in this bracket, giving your carry a small amount of solo xp (as long as they don't die) will let you get a much earlier lead
Finally, unless you are 100% certain that there's a ward in a place, don't bother wasting sentries trying to deward, as most other teams will either just river ward/ward in the same positions, or not have any wards at all, meaning that getting sentries may end up wasting gold (obviously use your own judgement on this)
Well there a couple of solutions
1.1) Pick a ganking support
1.2) Gank mid enemy wont have any wards cuz its sub 3k
1.3)Gank mid again cuz it will allow ur mid to win + the enemy team will self destruct (hurr durr mid and feed, OMFG NOONE CALLS SS YOU 1K SCRUBS)
1.4)Win
2.1) Pick a well scaling support (Lejon, Onionknight,Silencer) assume everyone is potato and even if ur carry fucks up you can carry.
2.2) Ignore everyone focus on farming, noone will gank before 10-15 min cuz they potato
2.3) Win game at 50 min
3.1)Spam Earth spirit
3.2)Learn his skills (personally I cant play him for shit but maybe you will be better suited for him)
3.3)Assume everyone is potato gank mid, farm midas if you get alot of ganks going
3.4)Win game
Also dont buy wards unless ur team is actually using them or you know unless you play vs pudge and you need them urself
I took a huge liking to AA as a support in this lower tier bracket. His skill set is amazing for laning solo, duo or tri. He offers a lot of flexibility and he offers a lot for every type of hero, he has a slow, stun, damage amp, a CRAZY r click buff in the early game, and his ult is a low CD team fight romp spell that is up every 40 seconds. He can participate in the fights from a pretty good distance, he is global and he can tail great gankers like Earthshaker or sandking to buff other dynamite carries in the lanes.
I somehow learnt him really fast, you realise there's less to learn the more you play him every time. I seriously recommend him.
whatever you do though - don't ward bitch until you have at least 2 core items - otherwise you just die all the time (There is the argument of vision = life/death, but in lower tiers you can't account that your team will use their vision or the enemy vice versa).
AA just needs tranqs and urn - and then he can support really well. Euls is core, defintely get Euls before aghs (If you get aghs at all, it's amazing but not necessary, most fights with AA last less than 17 seconds *cough* chilling touch *cough*)
I think he is so strong in low tier if you know how to play him because all his shit is low cost, high impact, high range, high utility and great for ganks. So he can rotate on a gank roster with everyone on the team with smoke super fast if the team is behind. This is amazing for this meta too, he can be really fast paced.
Pick supports who can still contribute after 25 minutes
Visage - familiars will keep you relevant
Wraith King - transitions into a good initiator then into a semi-carry as the game goes on
Shadow shaman - wards will keep you relevant
Jakiro - liquid fire and ice path keep you relevant
Earthshaker/sand king - stuns and ults keep you relevant
Notice how these heroes have skills that are good at pushing towers without needing a hefty gold investment OR spells that can be used from a distance meaning you won't get killed instantly
Visage - familiars can stun and push towers without needed you to be in the middle of the fight
Wraith King - reincarnation gives you an aegis
Shadow Shaman - wards for pushing towers
Jakiro - icepath for long distance initiation/liquid fire for pushing towers
Earthshaker/Sandking for long distance initiation and if the game goes long enough, you WILL have a blink dagger and your ultimates will still be useful 40 minutes in
Other heroes like omni/dazzle/shadow demon have scaling abilities but I would avoid them as they require a fair amount of skill and team coordination to play.
Notice how I'm suggesting you pick heroes that can push structures like visage/jakiro/shadow shaman? In the 2k - 3k bracket, people don't push towers solo when they don't join a team fight or retreat after winning a teamfight because of lack of regen. Familiars/wards/liquid fire will allow you to push solo or after winning a fight. I also grinder out games by buying necro3 literally whatever support I was playing. Necro3 allows you to participate in team fights without getting killed as necro units will be front line. Necro units allow you to man fight under farmed cores and kill enemy supports with ease. It's funny how often cocky 2k supports think they can "farm" necro units but I guarantee more often then not they run back to base, die to their dps or even die to last will damage. Necro units also allow you to solo push towers or push out a lane safely whilst you're on the other side of the map. Also the necro3 provides nice stats - 24 intelligence - almost a mystic staff and 16 strength - same hp as sange. However, I played with necrobooks before 6.82 so I don't know how they'll do with the recent buffs to tower/glyphs.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/902785843
Necrobook with AA ult allowed me to push out 2 lanes whilst farming all creeps on both of those lanes despite being taxed.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/900743411
Jakiro + necrobook
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/897303306
enigma + necrobook <This will only work in <3k as enigma actually needs to get items like blink/mek first
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/899300861
visage + necrobook
In these matches check the hero damage/tower damage/last hit or total gold <How is it that a supposedly position4 or position5 player is getting so much gold? Well that's because there is at least one lane that isn't being farmed by carries because 2k players can't rotate between the jungle and the lane. These creeps belong to you and you can farm them safely with necrobook whilst somewhere safe in your side of the river.
Should you buy wards?
If you have a decent carry and your opposing team is actually ganking you then go ahead and buy wards.
If your carry sucks but the opposing team is ganking you, then buy "some" wards so YOU don't get killed
Your opposing team sucks but your team is good:
Place wards in offensive spots and you'll end the game quicker. As you're winning anyway, you won't be a gold starved support.
Your opponents suck but your teammates suck:
Don't buy wards.
*Always buy sentries when they're needed*
Don't automatically buy Aghs, try and get force staffs or euls or both/sheep stick (in that order) Aghs is situational.
I think the only support that really needed aghanims is WD for the dos output.
i suggest you to use supports that have more impact later in the game and easy to use : wd/warlock/necro/omni/lich
Do not play support.
You are trench and do not know alot of stuff. Support needs more knowledge and has to make more decisions than a carry. Carrys earlygame for example is easy:
Farm
Support is way harder:
- Babysit carry (make sure he lives, farmes and the enemy offlaner does not get anything)
- Check other lanes for tp reaction if they get dived
- Rotate and Gank, without letting the carry die
- Secure runes for mider
- Stack camps and pull, if carry is fine (!!!!!)
Since your carry is not worth babysitting (he can't farm 100% sure), just be the carry and learn how to farm first.
Since your other lanes will perform jackshit (they will feed or get fed by a bigger moron), tps may be wasted
Since your mider will be a complete random dude, he may even not be interested in runes
Support means enabling the others to shine. In 2,5k potatobracket nobody shines.
In the midgame and endgame you make the macrodecisions about where your team will play aka where you have vision. You have only a limited number of wards, so placing them is crucial. You also have to deward and take care of not going apeshit aka madfeeding.
Since nobody gives a shit in potatobracket about warding (aka checking minimap) and this kind of stuff, your efford is wasted.
Learn to play the other roles first, so you get the feeling of what they need and when they need it.
Learn how to farm:
If you can get 50+ lasthits in the first 10 min without feeding, you are allready a stable mid 3k player.
Thats the first suggestion I would make.
That tp in inventory can actually win you the game. If you see 2 enemy heroes mid, on your side of river or one enemy hero behind your tower tp instantly. You either save mid, or get some trade for his death.
Also don't forget to ping when you're in danger (Ex: some weaver chasing you). Sometimes there is someone in your team willing to tp to save you. But most times you are the one who tps to save others :P
Pick supports who can still contribute after 25 minutes
Visage - familiars will keep you relevant
Wraith King - transitions into a good initiator then into a semi-carry as the game goes on
Shadow shaman - wards will keep you relevant
Jakiro - liquid fire and ice path keep you relevant
Earthshaker/sand king - stuns and ults keep you relevant
"Visage - familiars will keep you relevant" or you realize you're 2k and can't play visage and just feed birds all the time or die trying to micro birds.
"Wraith King - transitions into a good initiator then into a semi-carry as the game goes on" or you're useless and get stomped around all game cause WK IS an item based hero whether you play carry or support with him. Also the King should never support.
"Shadow shaman - wards will keep you relevant" The food of the 2K carries, don't pick him.
"Jakiro - liquid fire and ice path keep you relevant" probably the only decent hero you've listed
"Earthshaker/sand king - stuns and ults keep you relevant" or you whine for 30 minutes how you need blink dagger and you just end up with no items cause you're "saving" for your blink. If you're sand king you leave your team while you afk sand storm jungle so by the time you're ready your ult does nothing cause they have been playing 4v5 all game.
if you're gonna suck dick every hero feels fucking awful
and if you keep playing one hero you should see what works and what doesn't
the biggest misconception lower mmr people have is that picks actually matter a lot and that they are better at dota when they are somewhat versatile
even if you play like only 3 heroes it's kind of hard to get better fast when you only play 1-2 games a day with a hero unless you play 8 games a day
at 3k it's probably better to almost afk jungle a sandking and get a 10 min blink (that's not even fast) rather than trying to get your carry a little bit more farm
people often feel like they have to do something and then they end up not really doing anything or they don't see that running at a hero for 5 minutes and only getting one kill out of it is not necessarily worth it
and no matter what role you play if you can't get value out of an item that gives you vision of a large area of the map for 7 minutes for 75 gold then you shouldn't really bother trying to go up in mmr
I'm in that bracket and I think supports like Lich, Jakiro, Venomancer, who deals quite a lot of damage and have another useful spell (Lich frost armor to keep carries alive, jak ice path or liquid fire to push, veno wards to defend push + good slow), even WD is nice, tho my winrate with him really sucks cause I used to yolo too much with him, and made stupid builds. I think Shaman is nice if you don't go solo support, I suck with dazzle so no, some heroes are shit for solo support, usually the ones who can't get kills alone like CM or are too squishy.
I agree with havoc, ss seems like a good pick cus he has push ability but he gets raped by popular 3k carries like PA, sniper, void.
Crystal maiden is another do-not-ever-pick-this-support.
Surprisingly I would also stay far away from lich. Here's why. He has one nuke and zero farming or pushing abilities. In fact with having to spam sacrifice to have any mana he's like anti push, pulls your lanes back. He is awesome in lane for the first 10 mins and if you get kills and snowball like crazy you will dominate. But provide meerly a good lead for your team and he will fall off. You can't kill anyone when your ult is on cooldown unless your super fed with like scythe and orchid or similar dmg items.
I'd much rather roll with bane, ogre magi, lion, pugna, witch dr and maybe enigma and phoenix.
Bane - Better nuker than aforementioned lich, better cc than lich. Ult guarantees gank kills.
Ogre magi - tanky as hell, multiple nukes, you can solo people with lucky multi casts. He's just so freakin strong
Lion - Ok he is food just like shadow shaman is but you can insta gib people. If you farm enough you can sort of carry. I don't know, you might want to stay away from him if you're not that good cus he is high risk, high reward.
Witch dr - ult is so strong. You will win teamfights single handedly. He can be food if you're not careful.
Pugna - tricky cus he wants farm but his push is amazing, he is good vs heroes that don't interupt casting like spectre and pa that doesn't have basher. You can spam life drain on them and win.
Enigma - super pusher/farmer. Very easy to get farm on him as a support and support those big team fights with black hole
Phoenix - I never played him so not exactly sure if he qualifies as support but man is he strong
ogre magi, easiest support, easiest win
lion is quite good due to great disables and awesome nuke
abbadon is a great support
i also play support mirana, basically mirana buying wards and couriers and getting drums :)
tide is great, especially getting dagger and rushing refresher (in low mmr refresher=ggwp cuz bkb is for pus-sies xDD)
warlock and doctor rushing aghs can work wonders
also venge is a nice support that can transition into a carry with some items
but tbh, support in 3k and lower is kinda beggin to get carried by scrublords and filthy casuals who think that 10 cs at min 10 is good
you need to play a core hero in order to raise at least to 3600+, best 4k+ and there you can support good players (ocasionally 6ks, and 5ks)
but anyway gl on climbing
Tide is good, it's easy to farm the dagger with his anchor smash and you can still get his ult off pretty easily without dagger too cus the range is insane, unlike earth shaker who needs to be in the very middle of 2-5 heroes to do any dmg.
@Havoc
What evidence do you have to suggest 2k player can't micro visage familiars? I'm a 2k player and visage is a fantastic hero to play, microing birds shouldn't even be considered a skill. Dota 2 isn't that much of a micro intensive game. I'm 2k and my APM is ~350 playing a proper RTS casually. Even if you do feed a familiar or 2 or even 3, how much are you actually helping out the enemy? Great, they're 300 gold closer to their next item - dagon/daedalus/shadow blade/blink/aghanims - items which will have very little impact on the game. How many of these 2k players will actually buy the bkb or ghost sceptre or force staff they really need?
Did I ever say WK didn't need items? I have no idea how you even arrived at the conclusion you did. To further elaborate, a gold starved WK will do much more than a gold starved CM 40 minutes into a game.
So let me get this right, you're suggesting SS shouldn't be picked because he feeds 2k carries. It's natural to infer then that 3k carries will feed off SS more than 2k carries and 4k carries will feed off SS more than 3k carries. Why is SS even a hero then? I expect to see you petitioning the removal of SS in the next few days then? "Strong logic"
So visage, SS, WK and enigma aren't decent heroes. Insightful comments backed by relevant evidence - thank you for your input.
"or you whine for 30 minutes how you need blink dagger and you just end up with no items cause you're "saving" for your blink. If you're sand king you leave your team while you afk sand storm jungle so by the time you're ready your ult does nothing cause they have been playing 4v5 all game." - really, really, really poor input here.
Entire argument is fallacious.
Considering i come from my calibrated 2k mmr, i climbed just utilizing my favourite heroes; Legion Commander, Blyatcyka. Heroes where <3k do not know how to deal with. I don't find hard support useful till 3k +, usually they do not know what to do, roaming, ganking etc. I'd just play carry or offlane or even mid. I climbed with tinker. I guess just try anything that allows you to enjoy the game and you'll climb slowly.
![[Lk].Zano](https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/b9/b98e01ce6ef4a5e926a44cdd1564d0e8e5fbfa36_full.jpg "[Lk].Zano")
"Surprisingly I would also stay far away from lich. Here's why. He has one nuke and zero farming or pushing abilities. In fact with having to spam sacrifice to have any mana he's like anti push, pulls your lanes back. He is awesome in lane for the first 10 mins and if you get kills and snowball like crazy you will dominate. But provide meerly a good lead for your team and he will fall off. You can't kill anyone when your ult is on cooldown unless your super fed with like scythe and orchid or similar dmg items."
Not really, if you don't want to pull back your wave with Lich, nuke the range creep and then eat a melee creep in your wave, after that you proceed to nuke the melee creeps as well and when you are hitting a tower, put ice armor on the creeps it is currently hitting. Rinse and repeat and assuming you are getting at least 3 creeps per wave that way, you will have gold for useful items for the latter part of the midgame.
You can vary it by putting ice armor on the creep the other wave is currently hitting (they tend to hit a single one) and using 2 nukes, one on the range creep and another in the middle of the melee creep, before eating a melee creep. All in order to minimize Lich's tendency to pull back the creeps.
Also, people in that bracket panic hard against Lich's ulti, so even if you don't have a good partner to set up your ulti, you can still cause havoc in a teamfight just by casting it where the enemy is getting clustered (and they do that a lot).
Still, now that more games go into the late game, it's a bit more difficult to win those games now than some patches ago, but Lich can still get you into the 3k bracket.
Another support I'd suggest for that bracket is Warlock, mostly because most people in that bracket don't know how to deal with his golem, unless they specifically pick a hero who's going to farm a Diffusal. A lot of those games depend on teamfights going well, which is where Warlock shines. You can actually carry the game by yourself while babysitting at the same time there.
Or you can go mid and just carry the game with warlock. Rush arcanes / scepter / refresher and should be fine.
Support warlock kinda' sucks because he needs some farm and xp and also, some will expect you to get mek and wards.
I (almost) never go mid, so I didn't touch that part. Go for it if you can secure that you will solo that lane, I guess.
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Hi, I'm a low mmr player that plays hard support in the vast majority of my games. For those of you who were once support players at my level, is it possible to get beyond 3k mmr playing the support role exclusively or is it more feasible to play a more core role and then transition back into support once a higher mmr threshold has been broken?
I definitely need to improve my game by a lot but it is a little disheartening when you are supporting carries that can't last hit/farm, effectively stealing the gold/xp priority despite not being able to contribute later on in the game.
If the above situation happens, should I begin to take CS in lane? I rarely farm on a #5 support, and my CS is usually lower than 50 for a full length game. Is this acceptable or inadequate for a babysitter/occasional roaming support and what standard should I hold myself to in terms of farm when playing in this position? Not exactly sure how the farm should be split in the team and among the roles at this level.
I'm not reluctant to play offlane, carry, etc., if required, as long as it contributes effectively to the team, but I find support the most challenging, fun and rewarding position to play well and would like to stick with it as I climb in mmr.
Thanks