General Discussion

General Discussionwhy do I keep losing with tony?

why do I keep losing with tony? in General Discussion
AK

    27 games 25.93% win rate KDA 2.13

    it's sad, any tips to win with tony?

    White Flag

      who is tony ? lol

      AK

        the hero that stuns and tosses

        AK
          Heisenberg

            try some different build for tiny, get bottle always check runes, yasha is great item for him. try this build http://dotabuff.com/matches/284517996 massive damage and great attack speed

            Vandal

              The reason is you have force staff and blink dagger in every game, and that's it. What the hell are you going to do?

              Do something like this in farm lane:
              power treads
              aghs
              drum
              yasha
              AC
              MoM if you can handle it
              finish of yasha into manta

              You're 6-slotted and won before you even got all these items.

              Alyosha

                Bad teammates a lot of the time...
                Build an aghs for carry potential if your own carrys are doing bad

                Vaeldiithia

                  Probably your hero is offended because you keep calling him tony and refuse to win.

                  Why you build blink + force staff on every match on EVERY HERO? You should build each hero differently and after some practicing, build according to each game, not just the hero.

                  AK

                    isnt blinking into enemies and tossing them to team a good strat? or is it bad

                    AK

                      i also do badly with kotol...only 16% win rate:(

                      Vaeldiithia

                        If you really like blink you can get it eventually, I guess, but it def not neccessary. See posts above, Vandal gave you a build, try them. When you get better, you will find the situations when a Blink will be useful, but not on every game, that's not your core. Blink is core on Tidehunter, or Earthshaker, but not on Tiny.

                        You really dont need Blink on Kotl, Force Staff is okey on every support, so if you have some extra money, why not, if you like it. Use it on enemies and allies too, not only on yourself!

                        If you want to improve I can help you, I'm not a great player but I can link you some nice guides that you should read/watch. You prefer reading or videos?

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                        AK

                          i'm more of a reader, thanks!

                          Alyosha

                            Btw helm of dominator is not a very good choice on tiny, he needs attackspeed not dmg
                            if you need sustain get a urn maybe

                            Master Yi

                              Tiny isn't a hero for scrubs lol I never had luck with tiny

                              AK

                                lost again:(

                                Uberflux

                                  i laughed when he named tiny as tony and kotl as kotol...funny guy :D

                                  The build of heroes is different for each game. Thats why pro player usually save them money for situational item build. Im not a tony player myself. but my newbie friend played him, and he doesn't rush blink. He get aghs and manta. Seems a solid build for most of the time, but still...item build is purely different for each game.

                                  Vaeldiithia

                                    http://www.dotafire.com/dota-2/guide/keeper-of-the-light-the-support-who-doesnt-complain-about-gold-complete-now-with-hard-support-support-3334 KOTOL guide
                                    http://www.dotafire.com/dota-2/guide/tiny-steamtrain-carry-2622 Tiny guide
                                    http://www.dotafire.com/dota-2/guide/better-than-your-average-catapult-4803 another Tiny guide, read both of them

                                    You probably know most of these, but still read them, maybe you will see some new stuff here:
                                    http://www.dotafire.com/dota-2/guide/learning-the-ropes-a-beginners-guide-to-dota-8

                                    If you play KOTL, or any other support, read this too:
                                    http://www.dotafire.com/dota-2/guide/a-full-support-guide-beginner-to-intermediate-2094

                                    Its a very very basic guide but has a lot of information in it. You can skip parts you think you know, but still worth reading
                                    http://www.purgegamers.com/welcome-to-dota-you-suck

                                    ------- these are videos, but most of them has important informations on screen too, worth watching. you can also watch anything from these channels, or anything that youtube will suggest after you watched some.

                                    You REALLY should watch these, will help a lot (everything here that starts with "Learn Dota 2")
                                    http://www.youtube.com/show/learndota2

                                    My advise is to watch first:
                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i0439JaMYA Roles
                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_4sh8IzIZI Starting Items

                                    From these the Top lane (Radient), Bottom lane (Dire), Middle lane, etc, all 5 videos

                                    Then... Every time you play a game, pick a video from the Learn Dota 2 series and watch it. Only one at a time, then play another game. Repeat. Try to memorize as much information as you can.

                                    http://www.youtube.com/user/XVRogueGaming/search?query=advanced This guy has a lot of advanced guides, you can watch them when finished the others.

                                    Some other channels but there are a lot:
                                    http://www.youtube.com/user/Dota2PortalTV
                                    http://www.youtube.com/user/PurgeGamers
                                    http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH16H-DNfB0yf1Gxv5XfFEA this one just for fun (you can also watch dotacinema fails of the week series when you know most spells and heroes)

                                    If you watch all these, youtube will link you some other dota channels and you can watch whatever you like. Also, you can read anything on dotafire, that will help a lot.

                                    If you play support, like KOTL, you can buy some wards, but as long as there are a lot of Drow Ranger, Sniper and Riki in every game, you are probably on really low mmr, and people wont watch the minimap, so its fine to buy 1 set after your first big item like Mekanism, and another set after your 2nd item, and just place them on the big symbols (near the runes, and the next time, near your base or enemy base).

                                    You shouldnt auto-attack creeps in lane, try to deny as much as possible with KOTL, and try to last hit as much as possible with Tiny.

                                    There are in-game guides for heroes, if you random/pick something new. Just click the little book next to score board icon and the little > and chose some top-rated guide that has a title you prefer, like for some heroes there are a mid and a side-lane version. It will contain a skill-build and items too, so will help you a lot. As for now, stick with the guides, when you master a hero, you can build whatever you want.

                                    Try to pick heroes with stuns and not too many active abilities, when you can play them resonably well, you can move on to other heroes. Its easier to support with ranged heroes and to last-hit (and carry) with melees for beginners, so try to pick those.

                                    GL

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                                    Vroksnak

                                      here you go http://dotabuff.com/matches/352928136
                                      dl replay enjoy

                                      Retard Security Detail

                                        The key to sceptor Tony is have Troll on your team. Towers last like 2 seconds.

                                        Mostwanted

                                          Gay Tony from GTA?

                                          Alyosha

                                            http://dotabuff.com/matches/347663424
                                            My recent tiny carry game
                                            For a lower level game =)

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                                            AddidasБатка

                                              tiny shadow blade is good in pubs

                                              Penis Monkey

                                                Ursa wisp stuff probably didn't help, inflating your true MMR and all that.

                                                kord1g

                                                  Phase into drums into yasha into aghs into crit = 20 min gg
                                                  just saying

                                                  waku waku

                                                    the answer is in your avvy

                                                    AK

                                                      @ Vaeldiithia thanks dude! really appreciate it

                                                      AK

                                                        @Ultimate Life Form maybe so eh but we just pulled that off for like 10 games or so, trying how to do it etc

                                                        AK

                                                          btw guys I heard there's someone who watches replay and analyze the plays...who is it?

                                                          831

                                                            There are two main ways of winning with tiny:

                                                            1. Out playing mid lane (http://dotabuff.com/players/115356595)
                                                            2. Free-farming as carry, most likely with wisp (http://dotabuff.com/players/132217159)

                                                            I've had success with both of these styles, but obviously number 2 has a much higher chance of winning. However, with 6.79 changes to Wisp this may not be the case and I may be moving back to number 1 account, as no Tether stun really reduces the potency of the Tiny + Wisp combo.

                                                            There are two key concepts to utilise as Tiny:

                                                            1. Farm as efficiently as possible.
                                                            2. Kill people whenever possible.

                                                            To be a good Tiny player, you must be able to do both (1) and (2) simultaneously.

                                                            Looking at your account however, your creep scores and GPM are really always pitiful. It is clear you are not even close to mastering the art of farming efficiency, and so it is obvious why your Tiny's winrate is so pathetic. I haven't watched a game either, but I also assume your laning skills are not up to scratch just from the XPM/GPM of most of your games.

                                                            So what should you do to learn Tiny?

                                                            1. Experience playing a wide plethora of mid-laning semi-carries like QoP, Shadow Fiend, Storm Spirit, Pudge to learn the fundamentals of laning in many different 1v1 laning situations. You must be able to dominate the mid lane consistently to be able to play a hero like Tiny.

                                                            2. Experience playing a wide plethora of carries like Shadow Fiend, Phantom Lancer, Anti-Mage, Medusa, Morphling and niche farmers like Broodmother, and junglers like Batrider. You have to learn how to farm efficiently in many different ways before you can play Tiny at a decent level.

                                                            Until you are competent at laning and farming, you cannot play Tiny at a high level. If you are fine with the fact that you will never achieve a high level of Tiny play just by playing Tiny over and over again, then I respect your decision and you can continue to play the fun hero that is Tiny. But if your goal is to win with Tiny, then I suggest you don't play Tiny until you have played 100s of games with other carries and mid-heroes.

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                                                            Foxly
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                                                              AK

                                                                @ 831 thanks dude, i love tony he is fun but tryna win is hard

                                                                AK

                                                                  thanks dawgy dawgs, managed to own ma last games with tony, shizzling them whizzlez ez