General DiscussionIs it possible to learn how to support well without playing in other ...

I enjoy supporting a lot but sadly its game to game based on who you queue with or who you get paired with in solo queue. If you find a group a lot of them play carries and would appreciate someone who enjoys supporting a lot.

Supporting with a group of friends will go a lot better then if you were giving your all in a pub game where people would either not take advantage of good warding and will leave you out and dry if trouble hits. I don't, in my opinion think that playing all roles is a prerequisite for learning how to support well.

Ofc you can be good support even if you don`t know to play carry,mid or offlane role at decent lvl. But at least you must know basic for all roles and all heroes items spells etc. Is hard to suport well in your normal bracket cos 100% of ppl who play carry there they actually don`t play dota at good lvl.. but still you can win games if you do good staff with supp even at normal bracket. Buy wards block their easy lane if you going there,check runes for example at 3:55 stay at rune spot and help mid player (You actually secure him a rune). Try to build a mekanism , don`t steal carry farm..even if they bad with lasthit is better to not steal than to steal. Roam all lanes..you can gank mid with venge at lvl 3 or even with lvl 1 depends on picks. Carry always 1 or 2 tp..so you can fast react and deff towers and help team.And after all of these most important thing with supports is DON`T DIE MUCH. 90% Supports are sqishy and easy to kill so be carefull if you doin all good staff but somehow have score like 2-14 don`t expect is not your fail for lose. Try not to die more than 5-6 times in a game. If you follow this steps and maybe watch some replays or just twitch where good players supports you ll get high bracket in few months. GL

Thank you. :)
I usually go with 1-2 friends but I don't really feel it requires too much skill to win our lane (and usually the game) as extra-aggressive Slark+Venge... That's true its waaay easier when we communicate on TS and know each other's skill level. My problem is that I'd like to solo queue sometimes to test myself but those games usually disappoint me. I got used to that they tell me when they want to go for a kill, so I don't waste my mana on unnecessary stuns, etc. I can do the warding/counterwarding/blocking/stack-and-pulling/support item building stuff, but still overlap stuns or run back when I should have stayed etc.

Thanks for mentioning roaming, I guess that's what I mostly fail at, I always forget it... Will try doing it more!

Try playing supports with skillshots like Lina/Windrunner/Leshrac and see how u do. They are a lot harder

just try pinging...i usually tell people (when im not muetd...and well sometimes i dont even need 2 i just tell them when they are retards/noobs) a ping is a go, a ping is a b, a ping is a care, etc! you have to have awareness and understand the game/teammates/enemy.if u have an aggro lane vs+slark? and u issue a ping and move forward then its a go! simple and effective if u ping a bit random to the side/fog and move back its a b, etc!
u dnt even need to talk to issue some high level combos just move accordingly and hint with a ping. sadly u are support and unless u play an aggro support you can only wait for your teammate to initiate by positioning himself and calling the ping.

u cant be a good support unless u play carry and mid heroes as u gotta know them to know whats best for them and then do it with your support, what they rly need. remember u enhance your teammates in a way so rly dont take their farm evven if they suck (normal level) since everyone is bad anyway so 1 or 2 more creeps out of 10 failed ones will either way help a lot. and yeah... u can literally crush enemy carries/junglers with wards in gay places so try to do that too and remember not to die for no reason (or a useless ward) cause thats the worst you can do.

You should know what the carry is doing to support him. not necessary to play them though. general description is enough.

Thanks guys.

Just had a nice game with a random laning partner and we did this pinging stuff and he even recommended me after game. :) Our enemies wasnt really good, but that not always means we can own them. I went roaming too, and worked well. From roaming assist gold I had money for wards and early items. I guess that was missing from my gameplays.

I plan to try skillshot-supports, sometimes I play Jakiro, but I still have to improve.

I don't like talking too early, if I do some nice moves and after that they figure out im a girl, noone will harass me, but I had some bad experience from using voice comm in-game. So it's good to know that most people will/should understand just pinging.

A girl on a dota forum!!!!! :O

shouldve guessed since he/she said she liked to support...

<3 support. Hard role to play; have to get used to not getting boots if team needs wards. One thing I've learned is stay back. I love getting into the frail of a good teamfight, but I do no good when I die first b/c I'm trying to tank with kotl. Stay back: clutch mek, clutch stun, clutch manaboot, clutch it all.
Another learn: wards. Wards = map vision/control. After your safelane tower down, ward your jungle. Get a ward in opponent jungle is you can (spirit breaker love that).
I read once from someone commenting on a great support player: They always bought wards (think every 6 min), they always pinged rune at 2 min marks, they typed when Rosh died (35:33 etc).
Supports can go without items, hence their role. You want HP more than Int. That's always negotiable, but you'll figure it out.
Mek and Pipe are good stuff to get and somewhat easy to build up to.

I love supporting and have played as a hard support for basically more than 90% of my games.

It's much more rewarding to play as a support in stacks. For low levelled pub games, I think it would be better to play a sort of semi-support if you really feel like doing so. Support in a way that will allow yourself to benefit especially since your team mates probably won't even take advantage of what you do. Also, don't try and be a first pick. Try to be one of the last ones to pick so you can organize some of sort synergy with your teammates and strategies against your enemies.

Thank you too!

I watched/read a lot of guides on wards, so I guess I know the best spots for most scenarios. It doesn't mean I can actually go there and plant my ward, but I try, without dying, hehe.

If we have a Riki, Bounty or some other invis hero, can I ask them to plant a ward in enemy forest, after I bought them? My friends usually do it for me but never dared to ask randoms. Or it really is my job to go there?

Actually, if I want to learn supporting, is it better to stack, right? I thought that I should solo queue a lot to improve, but now I feel it's better to avoid soloing, and always stack. At least in normal brackets, after what you told me here. I guess that helps a lot that my friends know their hero so they can tell me while going to lane what they need. I mean, they can kill at lvl1, or lvl3 or I should babysit, that they are or aren't mana-dependent so I should(n't) run mana boots, they will need me to get x item, etc. And they not only know their hero but their own style too... So I don't HAVE TO solo queue, right?

learrn different styles and ways to get in and out of complicated/simple situations to get better...preferably only fail once and learn from it

No, you don't have to solo queue. In fact, all you might get from solo queueing is selfish play, which is the contradictory to what a support is supposed to be. You have to know your carry and adjust your playstyle and skill builds (as well as hero picks) accordingly. That's one of the many reasons I have branched out into a lot of different support heroes as well as skill builds.

A lot of the things you do are situational because you are trying to create a safe/stagnant environment for your carry to farm and that only works better if you have a carry who you know

Thanks!! Now I'm sure it was worth opening this topic, have never thought about this before, but you are right. :) I can stop feeling bad about solo queue issues, and also stop feeling bad about not solo queuing at all.

im too lazy to type tonight, but ill just go ahead and say, support is the best you can play, at least for me.
It makes me feel good to know i have been of good use to the team and helped team to achive victory by making their heroes powerful :)

You have probably noticed this already, but the melee supports (Omni, Abadddon, OM, DS, Tree...for example) take a lot more experience, practice, and team coordination to get right.

Since it is often difficult to find a team of 5 to play, focus on learning a few range supports. If you want to learn a healer, I recommend trying Dazzle. Maybe focus on learning Dazzle, VS, and Lich until you are very confident in what you are doing. If you play only a few heroes the mechanics of playing will become familiar and automatic and won't get in the way of learning the map awareness, advance planing, and decision making skills that a support needs.

For playing proper support you need to know how to play the other roles. If you want to make the carries life easy, you should know what a carry really needs.

Sime supports on lower lvl buy chick and wards, and let their carry alone on the lane while pulling creeps against a 2 stunner lane. Support is way more active and requires a better decisionmaking.

By warding you decide where your team is active for the next 6 Minutes, because it is highly recommended to be active where you have the vision advantage. So you must be able to "read" the whole game and where you want your team in 5 min. Are you ahead? So you have to be aggressive and ward their jungle. Are you behind? Do you want to turtle, ward your jungle. Do you want to get ahead by ganks/teamfights and have a chance to, ward their jungle?

To judge this questions proper you need deep knowledge of the game and your odds for getting ahead or losing it. You need to memorize Ulti Cd's etc.

You have to stack ancients, initiate on ganks etc. So you need to have a great feeling of time (when to leave the lane and reach it in time for ancient stack). Proper map awerness for tp reaction etc.

Support is more complex than the other roles. A good carry's decionsmakingis way easier:

Where do I get my gold from now?

a) Safe Kills aka joining fights (hardest part to judge)

b) Safe Farm

Ofc carry has other difficulties, like positioning in teamfights, not getting picked off (mapawerness). But a support must keep an eye on EVERY Lane to jump in and help. This is for a carry not soo intensive, esp early/mid.

What does your midlaner need? Against a pudge a ward uphill can make his life waaay easier and it is way more important than a 2. runeward.

Since you are in normal bracket:

1. Pick a stomphero

2. Stomp

Support is not recommended on this low lvl of playing. There is no point in buying wards if no one checks the map.

You don't need to play mid to realize mid is a lot easier with wards. You don't have to last hit as a carry to know you should let the carry get last hits and deny your own creeps. There is value to playing a lot of heroes because you learn their skills and strengths and weakness (like you might not know exactly what spells invoker is casting until you try him) but as far as the roles I don't think you have to try them all to basically know them. The main thing as most have said on support is just lots of warding and picking items that are beneficial to the team vs just for you like making sure you get int boots and use them to restore your team's int and mek vs aghs first, stuff like that. Another one is just try to set your carrys up, if you successfully gank someone let your carry get the kill if possible. Obviously kill the guy if there's any chance of him escaping, but so many times supports go all out nuking when it's not necessary and kill steal.