Testing this in a medusa ancients game doesn't really make sense. You are basically handicapping your team from the start whether you build midas or not as they are playing 4v5. You are giving a lane free farm, and in exchange you get average/bad farm at the ancients (and even if you got good farm what would you even buy first as medusa to be useful).
Hand of midas gives experience, which is 50 percent of the item. If you hero can get a helm of dominator and clear ancients early (gyro etc), you should never buy a hand of midas as its less exp/gold and 30 attack speed vs 5 armor is 20 dmg. Building HoD gives you sustain in lane where midas doesn't, so if you rush midas sometimes you will have to build tranq boots which makes you even weaker in fights in the early game.
If you play a hero that rushes battlefury then getting a midas before hand slows down your battlefury and actually will make you farm slower overall.
There are some other heroes that rush other items like linkens, such as morphling or medusa, this somewhat helps their flash farming capabilities and adds survivability and sustainability. Getting a midas on morphling may be feasible if you get it really early as he badly needs levels and two big items to be effective, but most of the time a linkens rush is the best avenue.
You should just only get midas on heroes that really need a boost to their levels, if tiny is being played as a hard carry midas is often picked up, so that when you finish your scepter you have reached level 16. This is so you don't find yourself in an awkward situation where you get your ags with treads at the 13/14 minute mark and then you are lvl 12 and need to farm up to level 16. Also tiny is one of the few carries where attack speed is actually better than damage.
what do you know about getting levels really fast when you havent even gotten more than 22 kills if you had hand of midas and you ganked a lot early and continued to farm you would be getting crazy exp
great item and by that i mean it looks great in stash and have a decent animation so its worth getting for sure
its good on level dependant heroes like invoker / warlock / furion / alchemist rest heroes not really
10 uses not 10 mnutes = 1000 seconds= 17 mnutes. 8.5 if you sell it .
Midas is a good item in terms of free-farm. if you are not getting freefarm, you should go for some utility items, midas is also good item for some that can make use of its attack speed(tiny,lifestealer).
There's no point of going back to ancients after you have midas. And an advice, lane presence is better then ancient farming for a carry lie medusa, If your team is being weak on easy lane and cant guarantee farm there's no point of getting medusa.
As a general rule, 8 minutes is the absolute latest that you want to get a midas, Midas for me is situational on carries. On junglers it is amazing. If i'm getting uncontested free farm and I'm getting all my CS i'll rush a midas purely to keep the gold advantage up + the bonus exp on certain carries is pretty huge. Again though, it's a situational sort of thing.
@ Luxon
10 uses is more like 1100+ seconds. You have to account for battles/deaths/healing/shopping/etc. The biggest drawback is that it delays core items. See the example I showed at the very top regarding medusa and 10,000 gold.
At 18th minute game time, acquiring midas at 5th minute is still behind 3075 gold to buy Linken's Sphere (2175 if selling midas).
Note: Midas delays core items = More vulnerable, slower farming, and less threatening.
The reason you want to get it early is because the exp is worth more early. Lets look at some more maths!!!
HoM gives you 2.5X exp bonus for the creep. If you use it correctly on a level 6 neutral this is 388 xp. If you do it every cd perfectly that's an extra 228 xp/min. Take a look at your xp/min for some recent games and see how huge adding 228 to that number would be. Of course that is with perfect usage, really you won't get that.
But if you did hit a level 6 creep perfectly on cd...lets see how much of a difference it makes for a hero gaining the nominal solo lane xp rate of 454 xp/min.
If you get midas first usage at 4 min (insanely fast) you will reach levels as follows.
level 6 ~ 4 min ---------- normal solo exp level 5
level 7 ~ 5 min----------- normal solo exp level 6
level 8 ~ 6:30 min ------- normal solo exp level 7
level 9 ~ 7:10 min ------- normal solo exp level 7
level 10 ~ 9 min ------ normal solo exp level 8
level 11 ~ 10 Min ----- normal solo exp level 8
So by 10 min the HoM has gained you a 3 level advantage over not having it....if you got it at 4 min. By the time it pays the gold back (not counting sale, because you don't sell it then) at 21 min you have gained a bonus 3880 exp (perfect usage) and are level 16 instead of only level 13 with normal solo exp.
Now if you did not get it until 10 min...you just missed that entire 3 level advantage. By 21 min you are level 14, only a 1 level advantage over normal solo xp level 13. When it pays the gold back at 27 min you are level 17, while normal solo exp would be level 15...so maybe you get the final point in your ult a bit sooner.
The moral is getting HoM early gives you a large mid-game level advantage. Getting it late does almost nothing for the exp and delays your first core item by 1900 gold...that could easily be 5 min later and lose the game.
The window of time presented here is 4 min to 10 min, from 3 extra levels mid game, to maybe 1 extra late game. That is with perfect usage. If you screw up the window of advantageous leveling is smaller. If you can't farm HoM very quickly, don't get it.
hand of midas is gd for carries in respect to boost farm and gd early attack speed (void)
hand of midas is gd for semi-carries who depend on lvls (furion)
This is going to sound stupid given the OP, but I always thought Midas was great on Invoker (provided you get it quickly enough), just because of the experience bonus.
I know it is good for invoker, but in regards to the team aspect, the negative side effect is too great.
^ very very well done. I have the exact same thoughts. "Opportunity costs" was the term I was trying to convey, but I couldn't remember it. Luminous must have studied business in College, at least that's where I learned it.
Ming [私を許して〜]4 months ago
u math geeks take doto too seriously
get a fucking life
Says the fucking Asian kid
worked for me, and I'm improving with each attempt.
I usually get midas 7-8 min mark.
having trouble knowing if its better to get RoB or gloves at start.
^
I never get gloves at start anymore because opponents will see you as food. If they just see branches and tango in your inventory, they might think your boots and stuff are on the courier.
Oh wait, you are talking about NP. I am so glad 6.79 indirectly nerfed prophet; I hate that hero so much.
midas is a great item for heroes need farm yet have no skill to farm, warlock for example !
Yeah, if you really hate your team, get a midas on warlock. Works wonders if you want to be put in low priority queue.
And i hate np as well so much. The patch nerfs him in a subtle, indirect way (mostly less exp (so midas is less useful as well) and the shadow blade cooldown).
Midas is good on:
Invoker for levels
NP for gold, pushing, and levels
Alchemist for gold
Naix for gold
PA if you skip Bfury
FV if you skip Bfury
LD if you can get it early for gold and levels
20 minutes to pay itself off in gold, yes, but the level advantage you gain from it is unrivaled.
Midas gives insane XPM, that's why it's a good item, otherwise it wouldn't be worth buying it in most cases
I don't like it on naix. Why? Because he farms super fast in the jungle without it anyway. You're never going to hit perfect usage. I've done bot matches getting it and not getting it multiple times and midas doesn't overtake my normal treads/armlet farm til like ~17 mins. But skipping it gets my armlet online much sooner which lets naxi push or go farm ancients with ease or go lane and support for kills. I like midas on nature's and that's about it (I don't play invoker).
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Is hand of midas really worth it?
Hands of midas takes around 20 minutes to recoup it's costs and severely handicaps the holder in the first 10-15 minutes.
In this current meta, the first 15 minutes is supremely crucial as it determines who has map control, gold advantage, and level advantage. I have tested over 100 games with medusa with or without rushing midas (farming ancient camp).
Here are my conclusions:
1) Rushing hands of midas (ancient camp): Given complete free farm, I accumulates 10,000 gold at 18th minute at level 15.
Items at 18th min: Phase, maelstrom, ultimate orb, and hand of midas.
Pros: Very good item if game lasts 40+ minutes. Gold from HoM is reliable.
Cons: Limited in options: not good at helping team or pushing tower. Low damage output and requires more time to build core items. Extremely vulnerable to ganks. Likely to lose many towers, map control, and team morale before HoM makes it's worth.
2) Rushing phase boots (ancient camp) - Using my video as reference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=is3GTfqQ9BI.
With 1 kill and 2 assists I also accumulated 10,000 gold at 18th minute at level 15. I do have to point out that Phase and maelstrom was acquired much earlier than rushing midas.
Items at 18th min: Phase, maelstrom, linken's sphere.
Pros: Stack/clear camps faster. More dps and movement speed for trading towers or participating in team fights.
Cons: Requires an entire lane (preferably short lane) + half the jungle for fast farming.