Why does people think that a person who plays almost every game as a support is labeled low skilled player?
Because retards say so loooooooooooooooooooooooool
Maybe you're dogshit that's why you're getting called trash?
Because you play in the potato skill bracket,high skill player will never tell you that .
Support needs better skill than carry,thats what noob players dont understand
Just the mindset of bad carry player. They think it is all about pos 1 and since they are great they must play pos 1. So, when they fail, it can't possibly be their fault, it must be the supports.
there's this tricky thing about playing support. u can easily tell urself it was the cores' fault, easier than the cores blame the supps. if u'r a 2 7 cm u dont feel as bad as a 3 5 am.
in ur bracket, any role played good, wins games easily. EASILY. although, playing support is trickier because when u win ur lanes for ur cores, they dont understand the concept of snowballing advantage. they dont understand objective gameplay, and other stuff neither. but the thing is as the supp on the same bracket, NEITHER DO U.
how many times have u thought "i want to put my wards where my carry should be constantly farming", "i should push out the dead lane, and tell my cores not to play around this area of the map", "i should stay close to my killable core ready to save him cuz i saw enemy be there and now missing", "we need this item more than the wards, imma prioritize it and ask my other supp to get the wards for a few minutes till i get the cruical item." "okay i have x level or item now. i should rotate and snowball with my new power spike and turn it into an objective"
?
Well carries don't win games all the time even tho it is easier to see it if they do.
For example if you see a 20-0-10 sven you just assume that the guy is instantly a great player, you don't even care that the supports zoned the offlaner properly or were stacking for the sven to get the items early asside from all the other benefits that a good supp does for you
with that being said, I don't think I would play support bellow 3k or carry for that sake, I would probably just spam WK jungle or LC mid till I get out of that bracket tbh in hopes of not getting matched against a 5+k smurf
how many times have u thought "i want to put my wards where my carry should be constantly farming", "i should push out the dead lane, and tell my cores not to play around this area of the map", "i should stay close to my killable core ready to save him cuz i saw enemy be there and now missing", "we need this item more than the wards, imma prioritize it and ask my other supp to get the wards for a few minutes till i get the cruical item." "okay i have x level or item now. i should rotate and snowball with my new power spike and turn it into an objective".
i've made an experiment about this, not saying that id doesnt work, its just so much harder than playaing carry and doing your things correct to win games. anything of those you said, is not helping your carry to getter better in that game jsut cause you teaching him how to play, unles you commit the " siraction slacks " style, which 5% top players in dota 2 when it comme to socia /comunication/pssychology/ skills, to make his team play better.
you have no idea how hard is as a support to try and make your 4k-5k carry, realise that his lanne is not lanneable anymore, cause 3 heroes invaded it, and that he can easily rotate top to the enemy safe laner which is underleved and kill him or bully him out of lane with you offlaner halp if needed ,and farm there. instead of fighting in his safe lane constantly, dying, flaming support's, respawn . tp bot again , and die again... repeat, same stuf for 5 min in row.
doesnt matter waht you tell him he is in autopilot, he is 5k and he things he is good, he play same shit for thousands of game, your not changin his habbits in jsut 1 game . as i said there are exeptions like siraction slack who can influence nad manipulate his team mates making them doing waht he wants, even thery not realse why are doing those things exactly.
so yeah having an big impact as a support requires much more efforts than playing core, wheere you can mute your brainles mates and carry thery ass. without asking anything from them.
i myself am practicing skipping "victim mindset" which is basically saying u have control over everything, simply by the way u react to what happens. i try my best to never feel i dont have any control over this.
for example. i tell my carry go jungle the lane isnt lanable anymore. or rotate u got ult and i got ult . if he does so, well good. (u also gotta have a better analytical thinking than that carry, meaning the decisions u are suggesting are well calculated)
if he doesnt, my mind would shift into "okay now that this guy isnt contributing, what is the next available move i can take?" for example i will go to the right place of the map, put the right ward, then have the map awareness to tell my carry "Hey u'r getting ganked" before he gets gone on, and save him. a carry's job is shoving the waves to enemy tower. if my cores dont do it i will because i know what it does and how it makes enemy play reactionary and they give u their positions and their moves becomes limited, even though my carry is afk farming the jungle, im saving him by shoving the wave on the other side and making the enemy threat show up there and passively farm when he can be kiling my core who's doing the wrong thing.
i dont just tell my core do this or that. i give a brief explanation behind the thing i ask him to do and if he does it cool, if not i change myself and adapt.
now im not saying i do this perfectly and all the time. but it's like a muscle. it gets developed as u practice doing it. instead of feeling powerless cuz u think the core should do x and isnt, u do smth to fix that.
"it's impossibe", "i cant", "i get 1 shotted", "it doesnt work" and all that type of phrases is signs of victim mindset
im not assuming your a bad support, same as your carry is. im talking about when your a smurf playing in lower account. not saying what you talking about doesnt help. but is much harder to win games that way, than jsut carrying your team. you know sometimes if what a core player does dictate the fate of the game, no matter what the 4 other guys are doing. giving you 1 example out of 1000 probably.
even though my carry is afk farming the jungle, im saving him by shoving the wave on the other side and making the enemy threat show up there and passively farm when he can be kiling my core who's doing the wrong thing.
50% of the games , your the team on a timer , this is how dota works. and if your in this scenario , your carry afk farming jungle, ' assuming he is doing other things correct, like items ,skill, builds, position in fights, ect ect, ' which will never be the case. despite that you still gonna loose , if the enemy carry is doing same thing as him but he jsut scales better or have a better match-up. " assmuing he is as baad as your carry is " he is still going to win that game.
my conclusion from my experiment its that. as a support, if your not able to lead your team constantly almost every game " in the right direction assuming ", your impact if you win or loose that game is not existent. is jsut an illusion.
"my conclusion from my experiment its that. as a support, if your not able to lead your team constantly almost every game " in the right direction assuming ", your impact if you win or loose that game is not existent. is jsut an illusion. "
100 pct yes. the problem is that people who just want to play positions 1 and 2 tend to be more self centered and ego driven than the average player. Here's an example of a conversation with such a person:
Support: don't go top. there are 3 heroes there.
Carry: **** you, I do what I want. I can take 'em all
[Carry dies]
Carry: Trash support
It's amazing how many people would rather lose a game than listen to anyone else.
One thing to keep in mind is that in low skill ranks a ton of people playing there aren't even interested in winning or playing with their team. I'd say 30 pct of the people I play meet this description and maybe a third of that group is simply playing to make other people miserable (their own team or the other team, doesn't matter which). People like that almost always pick carries and are just using the game to pass time or make other people miserable.
@Mlada i Luda
i agree with you. i totally do. but this victor mentality i developed does not let me think i just lost cuz that hero was op or just cuz my core was bad. im like yes his effect is higher than me so im not gonna be blaming myself much cuz of the loss, but i'll still try to learn what I coulda done better.
i totally get ur point tho. it's on point
yes ofc, playing supports help you a lot more on getting better at the game, just cause its much harder conceptually , also mechanicly, idont agree with those people who think that support players are woorst mechacnicly compare to core " only core player".
mothefucker you can get to 6k playing only core role, without not knowing how to team fight at all, what is required to win games is mostly to farm and split push better than enemy, and pick some good heroes in the meta who can do that. im talking about to " only core " players. meanwhile about " only support players" pressing buttons correct in a fight is almost all what you got, .
so yeah support players are better than only core players in general. (way less rewarded tho, speaking in mmr temrs) but the perception in community about supports being prety bad and not actually helping team to win but expect to get carried, it is not "incorrect" but it is at the same time. cause there are rly a few real support players other there in any bracket, and 90% of supports you get in a pub, its a " only core player ", who got his role taken, and he end up supporting with no idea what the hell is doing .
tbh supp or core, it doesnt matter. what both of them need to be most effective is macro gameplay analytic thinking. the better u can predict the results of the moves u take, the better choices u'll make, and the better results u get. now each role's "better result" is different than the other.
Supports winning games doesn't fucking matter what bracket or mmr you have.I love to be supports and usually team highly appreciated.
People get called noob/trash regardless if they are support or core I feel, but perhaps the hate against supportplayers is real in lower bracket, would explain why there are so few of them...
Hey P9^, can you give me some tips on playing IO support? Seems like you are really good at it. Thanks!
My pos5 support riki is the best. I ward, i gank, i kill, i annoyed people..their support even lose 3k gold just to counter support like me, they try hard but yet fail at the same. Destiny still arrived, my brother
So if we lose, its must be carry dumb fault's right?
Depends. When I played core, I used to have 5-10 commends in the report. Since I switched mainly to support, I never went under 15 commends, mostly it is around 25. So I would say people appriciate your hard work, if you are doing it properly. Even if you lose the game, people commend you.
Most things I focus on: win the lane for carry (if 2x1, destroy offlaner, if 2x2 - constant pulling). TPing for saves and ganks (if you save life once to your offlaner by TP and make it double kill in the same time, he will probably commend you just because of this single situation). Warding & dewarding. Idealy hero with safe or kill potential (SD, WD).
Because support is hard.
if you are really bad at dota and you play support its makes you even worse. we all know that rubick that runs around with brown boots somewhere on the map and dies 20 times, has no impact, places wards in places where its not useful.
if you are really bad at dota or really dumb (mostly these 2 come together, if you're 1k you most likely have both of these traits), you're better off buying a courier and going BS jungle.
you will have more impact, game wil go late anyway, because its low mmr so yeah.
I used to play support, went carry and now back as support player.
When i played carry at 2.9k my supports messed up my lane 9/10 times because they had no clie what they arw doing, even dedicated support players.
70% of lane is up to carry tho. a good carry can make up for supports mistakes . if your lane is going bad at 2.9k. its actually more up to you rather than supports. ( yes someties supports messing up is lane ruining ), as i said 70% you can make up for it.
if a 6k player is playing carry he will win lane 90% of the time no matter what they supports do or who he is against up to. if he is playing support he will not be able to win those hard lanes if his carry is 2.9k.
not sure what im supposed to do when my omni supp nukes half of the waves while trying to zone the offlaner. that happened almost every game
@dog
Dotabuff is bitch. You had 18 games out of 600 with omni in your team. 5 in last 6 months. Once you were carry (6months ago) and the rest of the games you were not even in the same lane.
no matter what role under 3k were all trash and potato players.. it is sad but its the truth just got to accept it and learn more.
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Why does people think that a person who plays almost every game as a support is labeled low skilled player? and always called a noob/trash when your team is losing even doing all the stuff nicely as the game permits.