My deepest yet profound apologies, good sir.
But it may be observed that this but an disingenuous assertion that heroes selected by the sirs in your recent contests because of your idiosyncratic beliefs.
So your balderdash is not in my pleasant taste and should be kept unpretentious hereafter.
Just say you had a shitty game with people picking those heroes and you wanna rant.
i mean how can u even tell. the biggest statistic we gonna get is our small circle of dota player friends.
im even trying to think, but i have all types of friends playing all types of heroes.
the best we could do is give opinion based on our experiences that we remember (hint we remember unpleasant exps more often. pleasant ones seem normal and natural mostly)
@cheap laugh guy xddd lmao
"Just say you had a shitty game with people picking those heroes and you wanna rant."
it would be nice to have people actually respond to my post. Even if I am 100 percent wrong with the details the point remains: *ALL* behaviors correlate with other behaviors. Every. Single. one. Selfishness and unpleasantness are behavioral traits reflecting underlying personalities. Personalities will, inevitably, engage in behaviors that reflect those personalities. Hero selection will, statistically, reflect personality, meaning that selfish and unpleasant people will tend to pick some heroes over others *by definition*.
Even if my particular hero list is 100 percent wrong people who are selfish and unpleasant will tend to pick some heroes over others. Maybe people who are selfish and unpleasant tend to pick support heroes who buff and help hard carries. Maybe selfish and unpleasant people are fine going 0/10/5 just so long as their team wins.
The question I am asking is which heroes are statistically most likely to be selected by selfish and unpleasant people. Please answer the question.
btw, I've had plenty of unpleasant games that I won. just because you win a game doesn't make it pleasant. just because you lose a game doesn't make it unpleasant. for me, a game is pleasant if the players on my team are communicative and work together.
let's be clear. I have had pleasant games with every single hero on my list.
"Pudge is most picked so... are you certain you mean what I think you're implying?"
unpleasant people tend to hide in plain sight. most pudge players are perfectly decent people. the issue is unpleasant and selfish people and the heroes they pick.
think about it this way: there are unpleasant and selfish people - do such personalities play Oracle
"i mean how can u even tell. the biggest statistic we gonna get is our small circle of dota player friends. "
I am very good at noticing patterns. it's something I was born with. you put me in a game for several hours and I will notice behavioral patterns that players with several thousand hours will not notice. that's because understanding human behavior and being good at a game are completely different skill sets.
Envious eddie, back at it again. Since you obviously aren't even interested in the topic why the hell are you even bothering to comment? Go away. You're not wanted here.
Oh, btw, commenting on topics one is not interested in is also a behavioral pattern. People who engage in that behavioral pattern tend to be more rude, selfish and unpleasant than the average person. Yes, envious eddie, *every single* behavioral pattern is a product of personality. Just go away, you have nothing useful or valuable to add to this conversation.
"gramps go sign into a retirement house already, sheesh"
If you're not interested in the topic go away. you don't need to be commenting here. how is this difficult for people to understand
Kazu,
SF was definitely high on my candidates list, I even typed his name and then replaced him with techies. my impression of invoke and am players is that they tend to be super obsessed with those heroes and are more asocial/socially oblivious than anti social (think the difference between a sociopath and someone with aspergers)*. I don't see enough tinkers or timbersaws to have a sufficient sample size. btw, my list is biased to heavily picked heroes precisely because I don't have the sample size necessary to evaluate many heroes.
* people with autism sometimes look sociopathic because autists have difficulty inferring the emotional content of other people
i guess just like handwriting and stuffs,you can relate everything to personality
but it's gonna be hard to know the exact lol
your experience with the unpleasantness of certain heroes is directly and strongly correlated with your herald bracket.
but yea i do agree. techies pickers are all satanists. maybe roles describe personality more. so not ppl who like to pick LC per se, but people who like to jungle last pick LC because they refuse to support.
but my point is, it depends on the bracket. it's not really the hero, but how the hero plays out in your bracket. so you won't see the same behaviours in upper brackets. Because afterall, choice of hero is more strongly correlated with the desire to win and the strength of the hero.
what im trying to say is, you're a herald little cun.t right? so you're gonna see people picking shitty OP selfish heroes, but that's really just the result of shitty skill of a shitty bracket.
if im fucking terrible at this game, and everyone in my bracket is terrible as fuck, and the result is that instead of a game of 5 v 5 dota, everyone's play carry simulator, certain heroes will tend to shine. the preference for certain heroes then, is more correlated with the strength of those heroes rather than personality and personal preferences.
let me put it this way -
if im herald 5, and named grandpa thad, im more likely to complain about heroes like PA, spirit breaker because i can't deal with those heroes. because i'm retarded and can't think logically, i'm going to attribute my negative experience with those heroes to the character of the player.
hanyolo
"if im herald 5, and named grandpa thad, im more likely to complain about heroes like PA, spirit breaker because i can't deal with those heroes. "
I can't tell if this statement comes from stupidity, social obliviousness or intellectual dishonesty. Obviously, my entire analysis of personality and hero picks is derived from teammates, not opponents. How in the world would I have any idea what's going on in the other team?
I do have some problem heroes I really detest playing against, zeus being the worst, but none of those heroes are on my list. I love playing against LC and techies. PA and SB are decent heroes but the people who play them tend to be people who are often more interested in getting kills than winning games. Since I mostly play position5 I often face dual offlanes who seem to think the entire point of the game is to see how many times they can kill the hard support during the laning phase. I'm perfectly fine with going 0/10/20 if my hard carry can farm unmolested.
I have had a good number of games where the offlaners spent half the laning phase chasing me around our jungle while my hard carry farmed the lane with no opposition. If a PA and SB want to spend 60 seconds chasing the support all the way to that support's T2 mid tower then I'm quite fine with that.
Think about it this way. Let's say it's 40 minutes into a tight contest and there is a teamfight. If the enemy's hard carry is CK that player will tend to ult onto one of our cores. However, if the enemy's hard carry is PA then that player will tend to ult onto me, the hard support. Look, if the hard carry wants to trade himself at 45 minutes for the hard support then that's a winning trade, for my team.
This was a good idea. Should have thought it through more though. You are correlating personality with hero selection. I think the more accurate correlation is skill level to hero selection. Lower MMR players often span easier to play heroes who are good at achieving kills even if nothing else. Now you might from there could say well skill level can be linked to personality. But then you get into some serious variance in personality traits. But to simplify it to your point. Younger teens or even young adults will be less mature in game, not have the dedication to improve at the game, and due to the combination of maturity and skill will pick “annoying” heroes while also themselves being annoying. Because that kind of describes the typical 13-16 year old male yes?
"You are correlating personality with hero selection. I think the more accurate correlation is skill level to hero selection."
it's both. i'm a careful and meticulous person. I don't play even the easiest hero until I've played at least a few games against bots. so i'm quite aware that skill affects hero selection. but so does personality and the two are probably barely related to each other. I worked 55 hours last week. I don't have the time to get really skilled at dota. futher, i'm a very social and non competitive person so I don't have a particular drive to rank up.
forget dota for a second. *any* aspect of human life produces patterns that can be predicted by variations in personality. I don't even need to have ever played dota to know that there are variations in hero selection by personality.
so, you are completely correct that there are correlations between skill and hero selection. however, that is a completely different topic from the one i'm discussing
Well you are right. But then again your original statement was about heroes picked, not heroes preferred.
Heroes picked, like pa, happens all the time in lower bracket. Hence my point is just to simply state that your observation - that personality could affect choices - is completely correct, but your hypotheses are completely and utterly wrong because they are biased to what you experience in lower brackets.
For example, i may love Pa because I'm an aggressive person, but I may never pick the hero or play him selfishly if I'm in a higher bracket. I might even pick heroes I don't like in higher brackets if I want to win.
Picking and preferences are two different things. And your whole proposition was about picks so..
Your examples of unpleasant personality types picking PA of SB in your team, could be true, but you have to account for the unpleasantness with skill. Low skilled players have totally different perception of how heroes are meant to be played such that thy may seem like assholes in lower brackets but are actually not if it were a higher bracket.
I mean it's hero design as well. You are meant to play some heroes aggressively to win. And Low skill players just love to chase for kills because that's how you win Dota in herald.
Which means to say you were accidentally correct about your real world observation. But you have actually no clue what you're taking about.
Well this should be one of the most interesting threads. Especially since we have the two GrandMaster trolls of the DB forums. Hanyolo Vs Thados.
How come you’re 44 years old and can’t even grasp the basics of the game? Here’s a tip of advice for you, plug in the keyboard before the game session starts
" you have to account for the unpleasantness with skill. "
Lots of people who are in lower brackets are there not because they lack skill but because they are unpleasant. I've been in a couple 5 man lobbies with archons. in those games every player on the team was plsasant and fun to play with.
Let's step back from dota and talk about CSGO, a game I've played more and one in which I got a much higher rank than my current dota rank. in csgo, I managed to get a rank that would be equivalent to around archon5 in dota. due to inactivity I would sometimes derank to what would be around herald 4. Lots of people in those lower ranks were as individually skilled as I was but they were only in lower ranks because they regularly, often deliberately, sabotaged their own team.
again, you are mistaken if you think that having a low rank in any game is solely a reflection of skill. it is not. a very significant portion a player base in any sort of ranked, team based game is going to be in those lower ranks because they are nasty and unpleasant people.
You are mistakenly attributing cause and effect. lots, not the majority of course, of people in herald aren't there because they lack skill but because they are nasty and unpleasant people.
"Well this should be one of the most interesting threads. Especially since we have the two GrandMaster trolls of the DB forums. Hanyolo Vs Thados. "
the term "troll" is absolutely meaningless. you're just babbling. anyone who uses the term "troll" is a mindless babbler.
Consider the following hypothetical scenario:
Someone is between jobs and has a bunch of money saved up so they spend some time just goofing around. Let's say they pick up dota and achieve some rank. Then they get a job, start playing less and only play after a long hard day of work. Their MMR will almost certainly decline. Are they less skilled? Of course not. They are now playing in different conditions then when they first achieved their peak rank.
Ranks are a reflection of game performance, they are not a reflection of skill. I saw a bunch of this in CSGO. There were a ton of people in lower ranks who obviously were quite skilled but their actual game performance was bad. rank reflects performance, not skill. skill and performance are not the same thing.
^if you play less your mechanical skill and gamesense deteriorates. AKA you become less skilled.
This dude got to be a troll
What a weird post.
I play a lot of Spirit Breaker, but I never play the other heroes you mentioned. I play SB in position four, and at my tier position four may as well be position five so I tend to buy most of the wards, which makes me neither selfish nor unpleasant (and definitely not anti-social, because I spend the entire game ganking). He's just great fun to play and you can create a lot of space for your team.
I don't like playing against Viper, Bloodseeker and Tinker. I thoroughly dislike the hero designs and they're just plain annoying (especially in uncoordinated pubs) and, in my view, not fun to play either. I don't infer anything about the personalities of the players playing these heroes. I've also picked these heroes myself sometimes, when the situation calls for it. Sometimes you know you're going to be playing against a TA, and Viper makes your life so much easier.
In terms of selfishness, what about those players who pick a support hero, buy the initial wards and courier, and then proceed to do no supporting for the rest of the game, taking farm from the carry?
Ranks are a reflection on skill, like it or not. Someone who plays a lot of Dota should be better because they're better practiced (though we've all seen those players who've played thousands of games yet are still terrible). I have a full-time job, part-time work and other commitments in life. Dota is a hobby and I try and be as good as I can be, but I'm never going to get as good as someone who plays for five hours a day, every day. That's just something you've got to accept.
And yes, sometimes there are those games where you play extremely well. I played a game the other day as a mid and got a near-perfect block, near-perfect CS, completely dominated the enemy midlaner in an unfavourable matchup, stacked my own camps (remembered to pay attention to the clock) and ended up with a ridiculous GPM and XPM. I was thinking to myself 'why can't I play like this every game?'. I can't because I'm not consistent enough. So those guys you see who seem to be really skilled but low-rank, maybe they're just having a great game. Maybe they're smurfs. Maybe the draft is massively in their favour. All kinds of factors affect it. If you start playing less, your skill will decline - it's the same for literally anything. If you stop exercising, you will become physically unfit and will have to train hard to get good again. Same with Dota. It's made more challenging with Dota because you have things like meta to consider too - there's a theoretical aspect.
Ranks are a reflection of performance, but also consistency in performance. Everyone has an off-game where they screw up similar to how they can have great games. To achieve high consistency, you need high skill.
"I play a lot of Spirit Breaker,"
The thing is most people are so bad at math as to be what I would consider innumerate (the math version of illiterate). no, that's not aimed at you. The majority of spirit breakers I play *with* are not selfish and rude. my point is that SB's are *statistically* more likely to be selfish and rude in game compared to the average hero.
here's the takeaway:
in any aspect of human life 20 pct of the people create 80 pct of the problems. dota is no different. in any aspect of life those 20 pct have behavioral markers that differentiate them from the other 80 pct of people in that aspect. I've found that hero pick is such a behavioral marker and that the players in that 20 pct have a pattern of picking heroes that is different from the rest of the player base. this does not mean that problem players only pick those heroes or that non problem players never pick those heroes. it's just that the problem people are more likely to pick those heroes compared to the rest of the player base.
no..... they are relgious fanatics and deep and brooding.....
Cool ones are lich,AA, Cm and maybe drow...
lul
I think if valve runs a psychological research they may find a pattern between hero's and personalities of the players who pick em.but its not something that me as a regular player of the game can make conclusions about.it requires mass statics and research about the whole community. And I think it only works about signature hero's because as you can see many people just spam hero's that are successful at the current meta.in my case I'm highly emotionaly invested on rubicks character. He's one of my favorite fictional characters of all times,playing him a lot and I find him and he's reaction based play style so close to myself and my own lifestyle
The number 1 most toxic people I meet are sf players. Invoker number 2. Everyone else seems pretty average even techies players.
Most toxic people you meet in dota have just come out of a couple of shitty matches. in other circumstances you would not consider them unpleasant.
who here can honestly say they've never been the toxic tilted guy in the game?
@ Rocket
what level of toxicity are we talking here?
Are we talking a last pick jungler or offlane invoker because they didn't get Core or mid? who I would state is game losing and proceed to tell them why their dumb greedy pick... cause if that is what you are talking about then yes I am guilty.
If we are talking about hte worst of the worst, chain feed, account buying, run down mid destroy items levels of toxicity then I 've never done such thing.
The worst is AFK in fountain or jungle.
I try to minimize the flame but its just soo hard sometimes. Its one thing if my teammate is flaming but bringing up good, valid points, its another if they are throwing, running blind 5v1 and blaming supports.
I had a troll in my last game who was salty as fuck. He got mad because they smoke ganked him. He said "GG NO wards, No vision"
I explained that they just smoke ganked you so wards wouldn't have saved you.
He also proceeded to jungle at 10% hp despite my scan telling him that BH was nearby invis . He died , again said GG no wards, No vision"
I flamed him, hard. I tried to be helpful and polite, but everyone has a breaking point and i reached mine when he was losing his shit despite being pinged , scan "enemy bh is missing" yet continued to hit creeps like the dumb beta cuck he is.
Anyways. +25 mmr fixes all. Should have reported him but I didnt.
I’m exactly like that - I’ve never destroyed items or run down mid but after a particularly frustrating game(s) I’ve been known to rage first pick meepo or brood or just gone jungle etc. if you met me in those games you’d think me unpleasant but I’m normally brimming over with PMA....
Gramps can you take a look at my most played heroes and analyZe what type of personality I have. Let's assume we're talking to each other for the first time, and not the 'envious' eddie that you seem to keep referring to me by
Gramps can you take a look at my most played heroes and analyZe what type of personality I have.
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All persistent patterns of behavior predict other persistent patterns of behavior. that's all personality is. For example, if you run a small company and find stuff disappearing your best bet is to start watching people who are chronically tardy. People who are chronically tardy are statistically more likely to steal from their employer than people who show up on time.
So, which heroes tend to be regularly picked by people with unpleasant, selfish and anti social personalities?
My list, in no particular order
Spirit Breaker
Pudge
Phantom Assassin
Legion Commander
Techies (I'm a bit unsure of this one as I find Techies games boring and might be imputing unpleasantness to games I just find boring)
BTW, this does not mean that anyone who picks these heroes in game are automatically unpleasant and selfish, just that people who pick these heroes are statistically more likely to be unpleasant and selfish compared to the average player.