General Discussion

General DiscussionBS mid is hilariously broken?

BS mid is hilariously broken? in General Discussion
ETd

    I honestly feel scummy for spamming Bloodseeker mid atm, but how can you not? Until the meta shifts away from 2-1-2 lanes with little amounts of ganking and roaming, all side lanes will trade out HP, and you just shit all over the enemy laner with superior damage and MS. Even against heroes who should actually cause problems against BS in a 1v1 mid, for example Lina, Tinker, or OD, Blood still tears up the lane, and goes on to snowball.
    Having said my piece, there’s still things to learn. What are things I should watch out for while playing BS mid? Any matchups to avoid, advice on how to play it better, etc

    Suck my tiny curry dick

      None to watch or learn
      He’s broken

      Ayaneru   ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

        Im pretty sure that Lina, Tinker or OD = Bloodeeker on mid, you just outplayed them.

        Hero to avoid on mid.., you should watch out for Meepo.

        Giff me Wingman

          I wouldn't really say you're doing well because of BS pick, looking at your match history you seem to do overall decently.

          BS is garbage against any type of nuker or any type of hero that has an escape. He's extremely bad against tinker, storm, OD, qop, SF, Meepo and ember. The only reason he works that well in your bracket atm, is because people are very bad at laning.

          ||QC|| Magneten

            Honestly, thanks for this post! I was playing a sniper mid and got totally outplayed by BS :( Everyone was raging, but there was nothing to do. Every harass was countered by BS' insane heal, when last hitting.

            SyManceriico

              Sorry. I am a total noob. But as some1 who played ember and qop recently against an blood i have to ask. Are they really that good against bs ? How ? Why? What am i doing wrong

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              SyManceriico

                Everytime enemy picks bs i just cry. A lot

                play for fun

                  with ember u just go with flameguard from the start, bs has no way to break it and his q makes him take additional damage, he can't kill u if u both get level 6, being meele hero u get quelling so cs is a bit easier overall it's just playing around the flameguard/trying to get him into chains/rightclicks. honestly i'd be delighted to see bs as ember, brood or huskar are a lot bigger bitches to lane against.

                  Riguma Borusu

                    ^BS dumpsters ember if he can last hit. Don't forget flameguard also pushes the lane in BS's favor, and brings creeps low rapidly, and BS will always outlasthit you while you're both standing in creeps. The only way ember kills BS is a support rotation, if BS can't last hit, or BS tries to dive you and you use chains. Otherwise BS can actually kill YOU pre six since you have 0 armor and no way to regen HP quickly (while he does).

                    I'd kill ember at least once or twice when I played BS mid, the reason being that I force him to leave the lane to heal for a bit, or deny most creeps anyways, so I always get lvl 6 before him and kill him as soon as I do, if the equilibrium is close to my tower I kill him easily, if it is not, I have to get a level of bloodrite because if you get chained under the tower as a BS, you're likely to die. The way to do this is harass ember to about half HP then just rupture and run him down.

                    However after the laning stage is over, BS has nothing in his arsenal to help kill ember who knows how to play ember. Mabe a stun into silence or something, but other than that BS is pretty bad against Ember in general.

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                    Giff me Wingman

                      As you already pointed out, neither BS nor ember can kill each other pre 6. If BS plays agressive and tries to dive, he will get chained and dies.

                      The problem arises when ember gets level 6, BS is fooder at that point.

                      And qop, it's pretty easy. BS cannot sustain the massive burst and harrassment of QOP. Even after level 6 BS cannot do shit, since long range blink will be 2 much range for BS ult to do damage.

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                      Riguma Borusu

                        Well yeah, once ember gets lvl 6 the dynamic is reversed, he's instantly stronger than you. So what you do is win mid while he's pre 6 then go farm jungle or (even better) farm other lanes' heroes. Since you win mid against ember you will be pretty strong at that point so it'd be a waste to stay in the lane where you can easily get rekt, can't overextend without dying, and also have the ability to help other lanes. Watch out for ember TPs though, because if ember comes to counter the gank after just reaching lvl 6, you're in for a bad time even if you previously dumpstered him and you're lvl 9 and he's 6.

                        As you already pointed out, neither BS nor ember can kill each other pre 6. If BS plays agressive and tries to dive, he will get chained and dies.

                        They can indeed kill each other - ember if he doesn't retreat at half HP and bs if he can't last hit. Bad creep equilibrium can kill even a skilled ember in this scenario, or at least make him completely unable to approach creeps without getting destroyed in his trade with a hero that has essentially infinite sustain.

                        The dynamic that ember and bs have is kind of equivalent to bs and ursa/mk. BS can't approach creeps without getting dumpstered, and if he's at half hp he'll just die. The same goes with ember against bs.

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                        Giff me Wingman

                          So in a nutshell, ember counters BS pretty hard.

                          eXcel

                            the hardest counter for BS mid is MK

                            Riguma Borusu

                              So in a nutshell, ember counters BS pretty hard.

                              Past level 6, yes.

                              If BS's team has no setup for silence, it's extremely one sided if ember is playing it smart. However if BS's team has, say, shaker on the team, or silencer then ember can get stunlocked into a long silence and rupture will destroy his nonexistent HP pool if he tries to run for it. If he has no remnants or can't TP, rupture is actually really effective.

                              But, the thing is, ANY hero is good against ember if there's already decent setup like instant silences and stuns. BS just has to stay the fuck away from ember until he gets bkb (again, unless you have chain disables, at which point BS just adds insult to injury with a ton of damage + silence, rather than killing you on his own.

                              Also, silence and rupture are VERY good against ember who used his remnants to finish off another hero. But that's like saying stuns are good against slark who used his dark path foolishly - let's try not to argue for bad playing.

                              the hardest counter for BS mid is MK

                              Oh my fucking god, yes. Can't come close to the guy.

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                              Giff me Wingman

                                Not really, MK players usually overestimate their lifesteal and get rekt quite hard. Hardest counter is clearly storm.

                                issue with MK is that he's very bad against physical dmg. The thing about MK is that he's very mobile, once you shutdown the mobility, it gets problematic.

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                                Riguma Borusu

                                  Not really, MK players usually overestimate their lifesteal and get rekt quite hard. Hardest counter is clearly storm.

                                  MK is much stronger than BS at level 1. Also bs can't really kill him even with rupture. Also MK is a ranged hero, contrary to popular belief (Kappa). He'll get those 4 hits really easily if you even attempt to approach him.

                                  issue with MK is that he's very bad against physical dmg. The thing about MK is that he's very mobile, once you shutdown the mobility, it gets problematic.

                                  Mobility has nothing to do with it. If BS and MK stand next to each other, and just trade right clicks, MK will always win. He just trades way better, which is BS's original strength (just dumpstered by one monki boy here).

                                  If BS wants to trade - he needs to bloodrage himself, hit some creeps, and hit you.

                                  If MK wants to trade, he just keeps hitting you. And you need to take two hits before you can get into the range to attack. If you're in creeps, they'll block you and MK might even put three attacks on you.

                                  Seriously, the matchup is not PG13 content.

                                  And MK is not bad against physical damage - he's bad against all damage because he simply isn't that tanky. BUT, he's very good against SLOW damage since he can regain it against a melee opponent (and probably kill him). What MK hates are nukes that destroy him before he can use his ability to trade with you.

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                                  Giff me Wingman

                                    You're wrong about that. I don't know why you all think laning is everything. Also level 1 BS is stronger, MK needs at least level 3 to be able to lane against BS properly. I spammed BS a little while and destroyed lots of cocky MK players not understanding that MK is pretty squishy.

                                    Once MK gets level 3 or higher, BS gets shit on, however the issue is that MK gets shutdown in his movements by BS pretty hard in level 6+. You never want to be in a situation where you are getting reky by a single hero pressing 1 button.

                                    Today I had a match with an out of control MK, getting beyond godlike streak, farmed as fuck, then rupture happened and he was not a factor anymore. BS running towards MK with BM while pinning MK down is a no win situation for MK, even with his lifesteal.

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                                    Riguma Borusu

                                      MK will still be able to hold his ground against just BS. However, past the laning stage dota is not a 1v1 game. A monkey pinned down by rupture has very restricted movements and it's hard to comfortably escape blood rite and remain in his ult for monkey.

                                      BTW blademail is terrible against MK in his ult, first because monkeys are hitting you and second because he gets a ton of armor which negates blademail damage. It's only good if you're not in the monkey ult, are far away from creeps and other allied heroes, because he can hit you 4 times (with relatively weak attacks), then cast boundless strike which will heal him from all the targets he hits. The only case blademail is good against monkey is where you are going 1v1, far from creeps, not in the ult and he's silenced... Which you shouldn't really count on.

                                      As BS you just really don't want to take monkey (or troll, or ursa, or ulted sven, or a lot of heavy control/outsustaining/heavy damage melee heroes) head on, you want to be a utilty hero against them that restricts their movements and silence them, then let your spellcasters/ranged heroes take down those heroes and only join in when they're weak. Unless you're massively ahead, in which case the game is already probably over.

                                      Really, I am not arguing BS is bad against MK - in some ways he's actually really good. But manfighting monkey isn't one of those things. BS is good against ursa, too, because he can pin him down, but that doesn't mean he manfights ursa. Or Lycan, who will crush bs in a meele fight 1v1, even though bs counters his runny runny doggo style pretty hard.

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                                      Giff me Wingman

                                        That's the problem. If a hero that is meant for teamfight loses his mobility and teamfight ability you are countered.

                                        BM absolutely destroys MK. Nobody runs braindead into an MK ring. Due to extremely low armor, you'll die way before you even get 4 hits off.

                                        I was a shutdown BS against a fat beyond godlike MK and still won due to BM + BS retarded rightclick dmg. Despite it only being a ~5k avg game, it should still prove a point.

                                        also BS is terrible against ursa.

                                        You cannot restrict ursas movement at all. He can ult through rupture and reposition himself to his team.

                                        Also lycan gets annihilated by BS, thefuck are u talking about. BS runs up Lycans face and turns BM on, if you're retarded enough to manfight, then Lycan is dead.

                                        You clearly do not understand the concept of what makes BS so strong. You're probably one of those guys who rush radiance on BS and do not understand why u're feeding nonstop.

                                        EDIT:
                                        https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4051401264

                                        Yep, you have no clue how the hero works, rofl.

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                                        Garruk

                                          Id probably run viper against him. Or maybe clinkz.

                                          Shou

                                            I’m fairly sure bs beats at least sf and invoker

                                            TheRRogue

                                              Sidelane could be a factor too tbh. If they did well,it easy for bs to quickly snowball. But if it otherwise,it just make bs lane a little bit harder to win because he doesn't get his thirst damage.

                                              Your Team Mate

                                                the only real counters to blood seeker mid are, tiny, tinker, SF, Lina, TA, Timber, sky, veno

                                                almost everything else is playable match up

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                                                ETd

                                                  Thanks for the compliments and insights Blunt

                                                  Ayaneru   ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

                                                    The hardest counter is Meepo!

                                                    While BS can manfight Meepo early game, as if Meepo want to stay in lane. He'll jungle, will appear on lane only to poof all the creeps and return to jungle, then youll be suprise that your still lvl8 while he is already lvl10 3 meepo with a blink dag.

                                                    Medusa is the other one that comes in my mind. If by chance BS eats her snake, 1/2 hp will be instantly shaved. And ofcourse, shell jungle.

                                                    P.S. Mid BS is good under correct match up (like a mid Timbersaw vs a Brood)

                                                    Shou

                                                      I pick mid bs against heroes who lack nukes, are slow, squishy, and have low base dmg

                                                      bojji-sama

                                                        BS who think goin bkb 1st item against tons of magic is retarded are retarded

                                                        Giff me Wingman

                                                          Meepo is a bursting type of hero, he will rek BS early, however midgame is nothing short of a disaster. Having to deal with a rapier BS on 1.5k+ movementspeed while having BKB on is not funny. Meepo is not a real counter to BS.

                                                          Also Timber + SF gets countered by BS.
                                                          Tiny absolutely reks BS, tinker is a mixed bag, lina shits on BS, sky and veno are getting destroyed after laning phase.

                                                          Feachairu

                                                            lich mid

                                                            Peekaboo

                                                              last time i saw a bs go mid, he was level 4 at 9mins vs a lvl 10 shadowfiend..

                                                              Feachairu

                                                                that bs should be seriously retarded or that sf rank 10

                                                                Mode : TOPSON

                                                                  In theory sf is lost against bs mid

                                                                  vlas.97

                                                                    to the guy saying meepo eats seeker alive, a few games ago i had enemie booster meepo mid. in our team we had a booster mid as well and he picked seeker AFTER meepo mid was picked. And the seeker booster rekt the meepo booster. Won the lane slightly, and crushed him in mid game.

                                                                    Casta Coshman

                                                                      if the lane is 1v1 bs a real good hero but if you get ganked/dual mid its pretty broken

                                                                      ETd

                                                                        I think everyone seems to negate the meta of 2-1-2 lanes. While the side lanes are trading HP, you’re getting +100 dmg and +70 MS, when you have a 1-1-3 skill build(only proper skill build IMO). That’s why, even against “hard” matchups like Lina or OD, you can suddenly walk up to them and 3-shot them. I honestly straight up agree with Blunt’s assessments of the mid matchups, if it were a pure 1v1, and the other lanes stayed sustained
                                                                        Anyways, I forgot to give the build I usually center around:
                                                                        Skill build Q-E-E-W-E-R-E then max W, max Q last. Talents are +AS, +HP, lifesteal, +thirst. Items: quelling stout tango FF, into wand and treads(aquila depends on team comp), into BM. After, depends as game goes; either radiance or euls for the 2nd, then bkb 3rd item

                                                                        Giff me Wingman

                                                                          Not relaly lina would harras and nuke him down, BS has no chance against lina. linas range, spamnukes and ultimate makes it hard for BS, even with boosts from sidelanes to do much, same with OD, imprison or burst with Q + nukes reks him.

                                                                          However MK etc. gets run down, nothing they can do.

                                                                          Rocket

                                                                            In my experience people don't seem to harass BS properly. Harassing him whilst he is last-hitting is retarded but there's normally a post-CSing window when he is still bloodraged and you can get him down to half health easily and then he needs to salve up if he wants to come back into the lane for the next wave.

                                                                            #NSLife

                                                                            PRAISE THE SUN!

                                                                              about 2 patches ago he was completely disgusting.

                                                                              you can outlane him with huskar / zeus / mk / broodmother / meepo

                                                                              you can trash decent invokers, all they can do it teleport or icewall might draw even if they are experienced.

                                                                              can still beat tinker using euls

                                                                              Bu yorum düzenlendi
                                                                              Duster!

                                                                                If its that predictable, panda has -70% accuracy. IDK how mk loses to bs, idk the matchup but i'd figure its impossible to lose.

                                                                                Bu yorum düzenlendi
                                                                                La Dz

                                                                                  Mk can not lose to bs in lane but can not win vs bs in game

                                                                                  Yami Yugi

                                                                                    a good CS player is very terrifying BS, really, especially mid when it's 1v1 in this meta

                                                                                    eXcel

                                                                                      OP’s original points about BS mid are all based around the early game, during which, MK dumpsters him in every and all aspects.

                                                                                      Even in the mid game, unless a 5v5 fight is committed, MK can shrug off a BS ult quite easily and there’s nothing BS can do about it. By the time the late game comes round if MK was against BS in mid there should be no competition whatsoever.

                                                                                      Blunt, for your own health, come out of the delusional fantasy where you’re good at Dota.

                                                                                      Giff me Wingman

                                                                                        5k brit talking about deluded. Now that's just adorable. Learn how the game works at least then you can get past 5k you animal fuck.

                                                                                        Yami Yugi

                                                                                          oh yeah about MK and BS thing, very debatable....

                                                                                          MK can shrug off a BS ult quite easily and there’s nothing BS can do about it

                                                                                          How exactly MK do that?

                                                                                          I was a shutdown BS against a fat beyond godlike MK and still won due to BM + BS retarded rightclick dmg

                                                                                          Won't happen if MK use a little of his brain and BKB right?

                                                                                          Special mention to the Star guy @.eXceL , tell me if you have a match against a BS spammer and you won with your MK 1v1 mid,
                                                                                          post it here.

                                                                                          Bon❄超変態駄目青年学生退屈日常自己嫌悪克服

                                                                                            not rly. in most cases hes easily locked and nuked. match up to avoid? against strong disablers.

                                                                                            Tribo

                                                                                              you know what's hilariously broken? Grimstroke.

                                                                                              eXcel

                                                                                                5k brit talking about deluded. Now that's just adorable. Learn how the game works at least then you can get past 5k you animal fuck.

                                                                                                The last time I did maths, and granted it's been a while, 5.3 > 5. So it looks like I'm past 5k; which in turn is higher than whatever 4k scrubbery you're stuck in.

                                                                                                Blunt there's no doubt you can mechanically play a handful of heroes well, but you talk like you're up there with the pros. Get off your disillusioned high horse for once in your life.

                                                                                                How exactly MK do that?

                                                                                                As I said, MK wins the early and mid easily against BS. Late game with 5v5 fights BS has an advantage, so let's not forget I've already stated that.

                                                                                                Now, in early game if the BS casts ult, either 1) TP or 2) providing there are no enemy heroes near you, stand still and man fight him. Your passive WILL give you more regen than he can right click through.

                                                                                                In the mid-game you either 1) TP or 2) drop your ult and man fight him. Your passive WILL give you more regen than he can right click through.

                                                                                                Special mention to the Star guy @.eXceL , tell me if you have a match against a BS spammer and you won with your MK 1v1 mid,
                                                                                                post it here.

                                                                                                https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4121688020 (note the guy is not a BS spammer, but he is mid only divine 2 so he's not exactly a noob)

                                                                                                I've also been on the receiving end of ass-whoopings as BS - even when I won the game I lost the lane horribly because of the above interaction; it was only in the late game where I could beat the MK.

                                                                                                https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4005842700

                                                                                                Further proof; if needed.

                                                                                                https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3976344579

                                                                                                Bu yorum düzenlendi
                                                                                                Feachairu

                                                                                                  wait how does seeker have advantage on 5v5 vs mk,going dagon and one shot this guy?
                                                                                                  1 wukong will destroy your 5v5 thingy

                                                                                                  eXcel

                                                                                                    No, but MKs best point is mid game, he does really well with like 10k networth. Maybe I’m wrong but I feel like he has diminishing returns beyond that point whereas seekers progression is fairly linear throughout and once a 5v5 teamfight breaks out he gains so much MS and damage that he thrives in the chaos.

                                                                                                    Giff me Wingman

                                                                                                      Nice try shitstain but no, you're just wrong and you need to go kys. I already explained why BS reks MK mid/late, moron.

                                                                                                      Khéops-

                                                                                                        MK dumpsters BS mid. It's all about using the strike with jingu on the hero and the creeps.
                                                                                                        Other than that you already straight up outlane him unless the damage from side lanes is huge and he gets more damage than jingu gives -- almost impossible.

                                                                                                        And no... MK never falls off. He needs a game without too many annoyances and he'll dominate.
                                                                                                        A late game MK with the right items tears apart most teams and the command ring allows you to push any objective with your team.
                                                                                                        I've been trying a build Ana recently did in pubs : echo/mael/satanic and I honestly prefer it to most builds. The activate + strike is a life saver more than a BKB at around 20-25m against uncoordinated opponents.